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Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)

theatlantic.com

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Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)

#11

Post by hackits »

guessmyname wrote: post #3

I recently visited Berlin to research about the German Freelance Visa [1] after being rejected by multiple local startups that were looking for Software Engineers with +3 years of work experience. I asked for feedback to one of them and was told that I should not consider myself an "engineer" because I don't have an university degree in the field, even with +9 years of work experience. I asked more people about the t…

I don't see how you can say you're a Software Engineer when you don't have a national accreditation or standards body and peer review processes. Backed by research studies via Empirical evidence.

Electronic Engineer, Aircraft Engineer, ect... Have more standards and accreditation backing them up.

In other words half the fun is trying to figure out what they want.

Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)

#12

Post by FLGMwt »

idiot_stick wrote: post #4

Engineers are people who hold engineering degrees. I'm not sure how it became otherwise.

Maybe degrees became less relevant (and even less feasible) for the burgeoning engineering practices. That is, assuming you buy into software as an engineering practice.

Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)

#13

Post by williamdclt »

My engineering school deliver engineers diploma certified by the Engineering Titles Commission, which is the only thing in France able to allow a school to make engineers out of its students. Thank you goodbye, do not make generalizations from how it is in your country.

Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)

#14

Post by coldcode »

My title says Senior Software Engineer. I didn't choose it. In fact it said Lead Software Engineer in my offer letter but a reorganization changed a lot of people's title to be more generic. I don't get to choose my title. I have always considered myself a programmer but what my employer calls me is their business.

Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)

#15

Post by danpalmer »

I call myself a Software Engineer specifically because I see it as different to being a programmer. I don't just write code, I try to solve problems in a rigorous and maintainable way, while being aware of the wider implications of my work to the business, our customers, and anyone else who might be affected by it. Sure we don't have the same regulation as civil engineers, but I try to do my work in the same spirit.

As part of this, I have a "masters of engineering" in computer science, which again, while not the same as civil engineers, still had a lot more wider study than a standard computer science degree.

I think programmers should do more engineering, and I think they should be recognised as engineers when they do.

Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)

#17

Post by jventura »

guessmyname wrote: post #3

I recently visited Berlin to research about the German Freelance Visa [1] after being rejected by multiple local startups that were looking for Software Engineers with +3 years of work experience. I asked for feedback to one of them and was told that I should not consider myself an "engineer" because I don't have an university degree in the field, even with +9 years of work experience. I asked more people about the t…

This is what you can find on the wikipedia entry on engineers [0]:

> The foundation education of an engineer is typically a 4-year bachelor's degree or in some countries, a master's degree in an engineering discipline..

I would add further that, following the above, a software engineer is someone who has a formal higher education in engineering applied to the design and implementation of software systems. Under these definitions, a developer without formal university education is not a software engineer, although he may be technical competent to design and implement software systems. In a nutshell, the difference is not on "competence" or "skills" but the lack of formal education..

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer

Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)

#18

Post by Alex3917 »

- If you do primarily do work that involves making decisions about data structures and algorithms, then you might be an engineer.

- If you primarily do the work of figuring out how to make business processes scale using software (and then implementing those ideas) then you might be a developer.

- If you primarily implement tickets then you might be a programmer or coder.

The idea of calling everyone who writes software an engineer is ridiculous, but so is the idea of saying that no one who writes software is an engineer.

Re: Programmers should not call themselves engineers (2015)

#20

Post by k__ »

guessmyname wrote: post #3

I recently visited Berlin to research about the German Freelance Visa [1] after being rejected by multiple local startups that were looking for Software Engineers with +3 years of work experience. I asked for feedback to one of them and was told that I should not consider myself an "engineer" because I don't have an university degree in the field, even with +9 years of work experience. I asked more people about the t…

Yes, German companies love their degrees...

I work as a Freelancer too and all the German contract jobs 'require' a degree 'or similar experience'.

In the end, explaining 'similar experience' is a struggle.

You even have to pay less taxes if you do 'consulting of higher value' as a freelancer (called freiberufler status) but explaining this without a degree is a struggle too.

In the end I'm happy about my B.Sc. in Computer Science. When I tell people I have it, I get no more questions asked...

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