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I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

theguardian.com

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Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#111

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

fiatjaf wrote: post #70

Does anyone else see as problem that web browsers are getting so feature-rich? That means that if anyone wants to write a new web browser he won't be able to.

I don't see this getting better. In fact, I think the next big trick in web browsers will be to embed a full-blown GUI widget toolkit, so you can run what would effectively be a Visual Basic 6.0-type program, directly in the browser, allowing you to bypass all the HTML5/CSS/JS layers we slather on top of whatever framework we're using to make it approach the same UX as a desktop app. It's going to take even more bandwidth to deliver this kind of app, but no one seems to care about that anyway.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#112

Post by Razengan »

elbigbad wrote: post #108
Razengan wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spread of misinformation is better countered by educating people about the potential and existence of misinformation, rather than policing the web. Just like children learning and growing wiser about everyday social deception etc., as opposed to policing everything people do and say offline.

Is this just an opinion, or do you have any data on this?

Opinion. I mean we tell kids to be wary of strangers, but we can't assign a policeman to every stranger.

Easier to teach people that they can be deceived or that bad things can happen, than to prevent any deception or bad thing from ever occurring.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#113

Post by zackbloom »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #111
fiatjaf wrote: post #70

Does anyone else see as problem that web browsers are getting so feature-rich? That means that if anyone wants to write a new web browser he won't be able to.

I don't see this getting better. In fact, I think the next big trick in web browsers will be to embed a full-blown GUI widget toolkit, so you can run what would effectively be a Visual Basic 6.0-type program, directly in the browser, allowing you to bypass all the HTML5/CSS/JS layers we slather on top of whatever framework we're using to make it approach the same UX as a desktop app. It's going to take even more band…

I think you're dead wrong about this. Desktop developers have been thinking for decades all the web needs is a more-desktop-like environment. The general conclusion of web developers is that they like html, CSS and JavaScript and want them to improve, not disappear. Many people see them as the evolution of GUI development, not anything to be removed.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#114

Post by pdimitar »

As much as I'd love to help projects like IPFS (for example), truth is that most people simply don't care and are entirely clueless on the impact of the continued centralization and surveillance of the Internet on their lives. Sitting with random people on a table, they giggle and smirk saying "I've got nothing to hide, you're too paranoid, bro, cheer up!" and I quickly give up. They have zero idea about how much info is collected about them. If tomorrow somebody pulled out that info in a fabricated trial against them, they'll sing another tune but it will be way too late. Nobody ever listens until it impacts them directly. Sad reality about Homo Sapiens. Another one is the echo chamber effect -- people absolutely LOVE their social echo chambers and they can legitimately punch in you the face if you point them at a source that disagrees with them.

As a second and last point to the above, I can't afford donating all my free time to help progress the decentralized internet anymore. I am 37 and I have a very happy personal life but need to work on my health a lot, I am very tired and burned out and I am finding myself unable (even if I want) to work for free without any reward in sight (not even talking about money; I am sure I wouldn't even be thanked). I imagine many others are in a similar position -- in terms of finances, in the health department, or in their general mental stance.

I very much like the idea of creating a "home internet box" which is a self-contained fanless machine connected to an UPS -- and it contains router, firewall, own website, own mailserver, own private Dropbox, a universal P2P node (BitTorrent / IPFS) etc., but as others have pointed out, our current stack of network technologies is way too bloated and full of incomplete standards -- which in turn are likely full of exploits and dark corners -- that right now the only seemingly appropriate course of action is to get rid of it all -- except the physical layer protocols -- and start over.

Try making an API app that works with anything else than HTTP and HTML/JSON. Tell me how that went for you. Try using ASN.1 as a data format, or a compressed secured IP layer protocol. Yes it's possible but it's much slower than it should be. Seems us humans always want to have one "universal truth".

It's extremely sad and I am afraid we'll live to see very oppresive times pretty soon.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#115

Post by halflings »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #80

Surprised that no one mentioned the new EU data protection directive, which goes a long way to fix the first issue mentioned in the article, the loss of control over our personal data (only for users in Europe though). I studied it in detail as I work in data analysis and consult companies on this, and I honestly think it is one of the best laws produced by the EU so far: It gives users a multitude of rights such as…

Woah, didn't know it went this far. If anything, this would be great for facebook (which has been anything but transparent when it comes to what they do with your data when your account is deleted). Google already has some relatively transparent controls on what data they have on you, and allow you to wipe all or parts of it.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#116

Post by sverige »

Esau wrote: post #3
Andrenid wrote: post #2

I would truly love a new "web" which is effectively style-free. I think the existing one is fine to continue for the general public, online shopping, social networks, etc.. but a parallel information-dense system that uses ultra light weight browsers that work on every device and platform, accessing machine-readable data with some standard stylesheet that concentrates in readability, and the "good" bits of the modern…

So, basically, Gopher with user style-sheets?

And better search engines to find obscure documents on the servers of small, obscure colleges.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#117

Post by mirimir »

clydethefrog wrote: post #96
sweeneyrod wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"selfishness, superficiality and female independence" One of these things is not like the others.

I hope this is a case of forgetting the Oxford comma.

I was hoping for an erroneous "in" ;)

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#118

Post by ashark »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #111
fiatjaf wrote: post #70

Does anyone else see as problem that web browsers are getting so feature-rich? That means that if anyone wants to write a new web browser he won't be able to.

I don't see this getting better. In fact, I think the next big trick in web browsers will be to embed a full-blown GUI widget toolkit, so you can run what would effectively be a Visual Basic 6.0-type program, directly in the browser, allowing you to bypass all the HTML5/CSS/JS layers we slather on top of whatever framework we're using to make it approach the same UX as a desktop app. It's going to take even more band…

There'll be desktop-style GUI toolkits that render to webGL not long after webassembly starts seeing serious adoption, I'd guess.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#119

Post by username223 »

keypress wrote: post #84
perseusprime11 wrote: post #72

Isn't Facebook the biggest culprit of web? Their walled garden approach and lack of social network portability is what I feel is killing web more than anything.

Facebook got a foothold, because authoring tools sucked so bad. That's ignoring the magic of some of their social tooling. But sharing digital content with your own intended audience could be achieved in a distributed manner. I know the W3C are trying to tackle that problem. We still need intuitive and easy publishing and aggregation tools that beat the Facebooks.

> But sharing digital content with your own intended audience could be achieved in a distributed manner.

We almost have the tools now:

* cheap or free blog hosting with easy markup and non-public posts

* self-hosted commenting with a URL field for commenters, enabling discoverability

* friendly RSS readers (I use NetNewsWire)

* password management built into most systems and/or browsers, to keep track of individual logins

There's work to be done to make it more user-friendly, but all the tools are there.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#120

Post by return0 »

The web needs more anarchy, not less. Less spoon-feeding people with the truth, let them bear the brunt of their failures. All the problems he mentions are political, stemming from too much power in governments which makes political candidates ruthless.
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