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I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

theguardian.com

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Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#61

Post by gkya »

matt4077 wrote: post #57
gkya wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, just that quality content that's worthy of my $$ is mostly produced by bloggers that don't really ask for money. How many sites are there that are as good as LWN? Ad network business is a big balloon soon to explode as the amount of actual customers you get is so little. Guess most advertisers know this but still publish ads because they're not too expensive to not do. When is the last time you willingly clicke…

Do you really want a world without professional journalism? I know it's en vogue to hate the "mainstream" press, but a world without institutions that can be somewhat trusted will be open season for demagogues.

I don't really hate professional journalism, I hate news. I only read them because I have to. This aside, the actual, relevant problem is not what is en vogue to hate or not, but that the trustible institutions take the easy route and instead of producing nice subscription models and actual, valuable content with good, concise, precise wording and without clickbait posts; they just push sub-par stuff and ads to feed off of them. If there was a NYT or L'espresso for my country I'd subscribe.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#62

Post by ajdlinux »

As commerce has become more mechanised, we've lost the ability to bargain and haggle in consumer business relationships. Forget about sacrosanct privacy rights, I can't even choose to pay to opt out of a lot of data collection. We need better options than all-or-nothing.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#64

Post by nils-m-holm »

navs wrote: post #48
Andrenid wrote: post #2

I would truly love a new "web" which is effectively style-free. I think the existing one is fine to continue for the general public, online shopping, social networks, etc.. but a parallel information-dense system that uses ultra light weight browsers that work on every device and platform, accessing machine-readable data with some standard stylesheet that concentrates in readability, and the "good" bits of the modern…

You can experience a better web. It's not easy though. You'll need to give up a lot. I turn off javascript in Firefox (must it really be done through about:config?). A lot of websites work and I appreciate those sites even more. Gmail still offering a HTML version for example. Then there are those that don't like Youtube. I've had to effectively give it up or find a workaround like youtube-dl and mpv. What does suck…

I have JS off 99% of the time and I don't feel that I give up a lot! Rather the opposite:

Whenever I see something interesting here on HN or somewhere else and the site wants me to turn on JS, I realize that the subject may not be that interesting at all and just close the tab. Big time-saver! Win-win. :)

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#65

Post by holografix »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #60
username223 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of internet users view "beautiful" webpages as a display of trustworthiness and importance. Not so much. A lot of web users like simple, predictable pages. Flyout menus spazzing all over the page, giant headers breaking the space bar, and obscure hamburgers hiding useful features just confuse and annoy people who don't know about CSS element blocking.

Those aren't beautiful pages. We geeks, who can understand the code, decry the complexity of a beautiful page and prefer not to go there. But we're 1% of the audience. The other 99% are used to equating beauty and style with quality. More style == more quality. Less style == less quality. The pages we love because of their simplicity don't do well in the mass market because of their simplicity. I have taken to callin…

I know what you mean. Frankly I think the Kardashians are a force for evil. Promoting selfishness, superficiality and female independence through hyper sexual objectification.

Why are they so popular? Total mystery to me.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#66

Post by fiatjaf »

Andrenid wrote: post #2

I would truly love a new "web" which is effectively style-free. I think the existing one is fine to continue for the general public, online shopping, social networks, etc.. but a parallel information-dense system that uses ultra light weight browsers that work on every device and platform, accessing machine-readable data with some standard stylesheet that concentrates in readability, and the "good" bits of the modern…

I think I get what you're saying, but after thinking a little about it I can only see the big problem of standardization.

How can a discussion forum signal that one message was sent in reply to other message? Or how can a wiki say that one word links to another article?

If you don't have a standard for all this (which means a standard for everything anyone could invent to run on top of this style-free web) then people will come up with their own way of doing it, and the browser should support different ways of doing it, thus people will start inventing new ways of signalizing that a message is a message, a user profile is a user profile, a link is a link etc.

Thus we end up with styles and the web as it is today.

Re: I invented the web. Here are three things we need to change to save it

#69

Post by fiatjaf »

ajdlinux wrote: post #62

As commerce has become more mechanised, we've lost the ability to bargain and haggle in consumer business relationships. Forget about sacrosanct privacy rights, I can't even choose to pay to opt out of a lot of data collection. We need better options than all-or-nothing.

You are right, but this has nothing to do with bargain. I run a business that's totally outside the web. I don't bargain. If any customer is bargaining I just say no.
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