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Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

nytimes.com

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Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#191

Post by austinjp »

outside1234 wrote: post #48
bnjms wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never understand this argument. Noon should be when the sun is roughly directly overhead. And there will be no increase in daylight compared to businesses adjusting working hours to open an hour earlier.

I never understand why people care what number it is on a wall when the sun is anywhere. I go even further with this and say the whole world should be on the same clock. Who cares if it says 03:00 when you eat dinner or 17:00 when you eat breakfast - and think how much easier it will be to plan anything that spans timezones!

If people generally do X but you prefer Y, perhaps you could seek to understand the reasons behind X, rather than declare Y to be better.

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#192

Post by sundvor »

JasonSage wrote: post #180
BallCramp wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Registered an account just to say "Me too". I've been on this rotating cycle for several years at this point (so can't really tell how it might affect depression). It's remarkable how similar the timing is too... I go around the clock about every month or so. Though I don't think I could stay on normal time even if I wanted to. Eventually I'll have a night of insomnia, where I overshoot my usual pattern by probably 6…

Thanks so much for registering and sharing! It's cool to see that somebody has made this work for a long period of time. I also want to look into this and see what other people's experiences have been like.

I just wish I could follow such a schedule. Upon seeing it, it makes perfect sense for myself. Alas, kid's school & regular working hours.

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#193

Post by Broken_Hippo »

pharrington wrote: post #49
update wrote: post #12

> Tübingen who was hospitalized for depression and claimed that she normally kept her symptoms in check by taking all-night bike rides. He subsequently demonstrated in a group of depressed patients that a night of complete sleep deprivation produced an immediate, significant improvement in mood in about 60 percent of the group. I thought this bit was neat. I'd heard that sleep deprivation can bring on a feeling of eu…

Your anecdotal experience is far from uncommon. For the article to even imply this as any sort of cure for depression, though, massively misinterprets the small amount of research on this. edit: And as a sibling comment mentioned, we do know that cognition suffers immensely when sleep-deprived.

Not so long ago I read a similar article. This small piece of research is just that - a piece, and I'm going to guess the actual effect will be seen once we combine the pieces. Sleep deprivation itself obviously isn't sustainable, but other things might just be.

Other sleep-related studies show things like decreasing REM sleep helps as well. Some psychiatric drugs already have this effect on people, in fact. Obviously, going without sleep is going to do this. Granted, this is all speculation from the bits I've read, but it would make sense - as well as why some folks find weed to help greatly: taken regularly, it often decreases dreaming.

I'd provide the link, but I can't remember where I read it. I've seen a few articles reporting on this particular thing.

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#194

Post by Broken_Hippo »

make3 wrote: post #97

Thinking of the recent reproducibility crisis in psychology, I'm wondering how you can prove this without the placebo effect. How does someone try not sleeping without knowing if they are not sleeping? Or do you compare with people doing something else that is known to be useless? like a sugar pill. Thinking about how different colors of placebo in antidepressants have more or less intense effects, I wonder if the fa…

I think it is quite impossible for folks to sleep-but-not sleeping. It is kind of like testing LSD against a placebo - it is rather obvious after some time has passed which has the real thing and which doesn't. It is still quite obvious that it works.

In this case, it'll be somewhat obvious who slept and who did not. There simply isn't a way to fake that. But we can compare the results of different types of sleep.

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#196

Post by ajmurmann »

BallCramp wrote: post #179
JasonSage wrote: post #121

> Most people’s natural cycle is somewhat longer than the 24-hour solar day, which means that, left to our own devices, we would get quickly get out of sync with the external world. I've always had very bad issues sleeping and waking "on time." In school this led to me regularly missing class and eventually dropping school entirely, and with regular work schedules I hardly ever got good sleep. A little while ago, I m…

Registered an account just to say "Me too". I've been on this rotating cycle for several years at this point (so can't really tell how it might affect depression). It's remarkable how similar the timing is too... I go around the clock about every month or so. Though I don't think I could stay on normal time even if I wanted to. Eventually I'll have a night of insomnia, where I overshoot my usual pattern by probably 6…

I think you folks are actually no anomaly but the norm. Most people just don't act on it. The article even mentioned that most people's circadian rhythm is longer than 24 hours and that we force ourselves into a 24 hour rhythm. I think it's quite obvious. It's pretty easy to go to bed later and it's pretty easy to sleep too long for most people I know. (maybe it's just more noticeable though because people aren't late to work because they woke up too early or late too early because they need to sleep super early). I also find traveling west almost pleasant because you just have to stay up longer and wake up unusually early which is very interesting when traveling, especially to Asia. Traveling ready is a total nightmare without medication. You have to go to sleep before tired and wake up before you've sleep enough or you sleep through the whole morning.

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#197

Post by [deleted] »

jshevek wrote: post #36
omginternets wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know it's just an expression right? If we change it to "fall outside of 2-sigma", will you allow us to return to the actual point, or will you continue with your passive-agressive hair-splitting?

The parent comment is factual. Your comment presumes motive.

[deleted]

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#198

Post by jakewins »

fjdlwlv wrote: post #120
jakewins wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychiatrists hold a medical doctorate, so unless you are claiming that medical science has no scientific validity I believe you are thinking of Psychology, which is an entirely different field.

I studied chemistry in college. That doesn't mean computer programming is a chemical discipline. Psychiatrists go to medical school so they can prescribe medicine without killing a patient, not because medical school has a scientifically rigorous psychiatry curriculum. Remember that homosexuality was a psychiatric disease until recently.

So, this may simply be because this differs between countries - I live in the US. Here, you do not study psychiatry in med school, it's something you study after you complete regular medical school. The rough path looks like:

- 4 years of undergrad, ideally with one major in Biology

- MCAT

- 4 years of general medical school

- 4 years of specialized psychiatry residency, usually at university hospital

Meaning, here in the US it's a medical discipline, but this may not be the case where you live.

You're absolutely right that there is a horrific history to the field of psychiatry - homosexuality indeed wasn't unlisted until a little over 40 years ago. However, this is rapidly changing with the advent of tools like PCR and Western Blotting, which allows psychiatry to research mental disease on the level of individual gene expression and proteins.

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#200

Post by kaybe »

ajmurmann wrote: post #196
BallCramp wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Registered an account just to say "Me too". I've been on this rotating cycle for several years at this point (so can't really tell how it might affect depression). It's remarkable how similar the timing is too... I go around the clock about every month or so. Though I don't think I could stay on normal time even if I wanted to. Eventually I'll have a night of insomnia, where I overshoot my usual pattern by probably 6…

I think you folks are actually no anomaly but the norm. Most people just don't act on it. The article even mentioned that most people's circadian rhythm is longer than 24 hours and that we force ourselves into a 24 hour rhythm. I think it's quite obvious. It's pretty easy to go to bed later and it's pretty easy to sleep too long for most people I know. (maybe it's just more noticeable though because people aren't lat…

Travelling west is fantastic. I found that with a bit of discipline I can just skip jetlag and be a morning person for the duration of the journey. On the way back - no jetlag either and back to the usual late pattern.
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