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Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

nytimes.com

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Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#181

Post by sethrin »

3pt14159 wrote: post #10

My father, brother and I all only need about 5 or 6 hours of sleep. We all just wake up, no matter when we go to bed or how light or dark the room is at night or in the morning. I strongly suspect we have that gene that lets you sleep less, but NYT is indicating that they think I'm depressed based on the embedded interactive. I don't feel depressed. Short of a genomic test, how can one differentiate?

I actually started doing that recently. I will sometimes wake up after only three hours. I don't necessarily think that genetics are necessary, on the other hand I do have some family history of this. Personally, I don't think much more of it than that I'm strongly motivated these days.

If you don't feel depressed, you're probably not depressed. Depression is like having rats in your head. Your failures are always in front of you. I'm kinda just getting over about 25 years of various degrees of suicidal depression. You guys may be a little neurodivergent but it's what they say, everyone needs a few mental blocks to play with. I'm sure you'll be fine :)

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#182

Post by Kluny »

amygdyl wrote: post #158
amelius wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a disease such as depression, make a list of conditions that can cause it. For depression, vitamin deficiencies would be on the list (but also things like hormone imbalances, and many other conditions). Bring this list to your doc and let them add probabilities to each condition. Now work your way down the list, and get the blood work done. In any case, make sure your doc presents upfront an analytical ap…

as someone who has suffered from acute and chronic* depression, i do want ask, is disease the correct noun? by "acute and chronic" relating to my experience, I intend this to mean long term and severe, but also "narrow basis" and severe and recurring. I know I am overloading a operator somewhere here... [ inline footnote for reading meter] If cancer is many kinds, it is a a disease in the sense that it is systemic, a…

Hey, I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this question (statement?), but maybe you should think it through some more, edit, and make it a blog post? Some interesting ideas.

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#183

Post by BallCramp »

JasonSage wrote: post #180
BallCramp wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Registered an account just to say "Me too". I've been on this rotating cycle for several years at this point (so can't really tell how it might affect depression). It's remarkable how similar the timing is too... I go around the clock about every month or so. Though I don't think I could stay on normal time even if I wanted to. Eventually I'll have a night of insomnia, where I overshoot my usual pattern by probably 6…

Thanks so much for registering and sharing! It's cool to see that somebody has made this work for a long period of time. I also want to look into this and see what other people's experiences have been like.

Well I don't know if I can say I'm making it work. I do end up in some crazy situations, like during winter not seeing daylight for a few weeks. I still think of it as being in "Well, that can't be good" territory. Then there's the horror of thinking - "If my work situation falls apart and I have to get a 9-to-5, how will I even deal with that?".

I sometimes wonder if it'd just sort itself out if I quit caffeine completely, and stopped staring at a screen all day... but that's not exactly compatible with my career.

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#184

Post by Kluny »

fusillijerry89 wrote: post #170
Kluny wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also did some reading about vitamins last year and ended up taking vitamin d for a while, then magnesium for a while. My method wasn't any more scientific than that, but the vitamin D had no noticeable effect, while the effect of magnesium was dramatic. I was suffering from mood swings, poor concentration and low energy serious enough that I was considering seeing a psychologist about depression. Magnesium seems to…

Sorry man but I have to butt in here. The culture of hacker news-type thinking can be very toxic and lead to such thoughts as "I just wish there was a better way to figure out your deficiency than just popping some pills and wait to see what happens. A weekly blood test for vitamin levels combined with mood and health journaling would probably give me the kind of data I'm looking for, but that only seems to be availa…

No, you don't sound like an ass, but I feel like I've been where you are and have a bit more perspective to add.

Circadian rhythms are a thing, and eating within a time window may have a great effect for some people. I'm already very rigid with my eating patterns and I don't see that it adds any value except for giving me a headache if I happen to miss my window.

Eating mostly plants is probably a good idea, I know there's mountains of evidence backing it up. But every time I try it, I find it difficult to physically put enough food in my body to satisfy my energy needs. I have to spend so much time shopping, prepping, cooking, and planning - activities that I do not enjoy - that I end up less happy because I'm spending my time on something I don't want to do.

In addition to that, eating a lot of plant material gives you hella constipation. Believe me, I know. Maybe your body gets used to it after a while, but a month of asshole-tearing shits is enough to tell me that I need more meat and dairy in my diet. I lift - at least, when I'm able to eat enough calories to sustain the energy level I need to lift, I lift. That hasn't happened for a while because I'm trying to save up for something and be frugal, so I've been eating less meat and dairy to save money. As a result, I don't have enough energy to lift. There just aren't enough hours in the day to consume that many calories in beans.

There are counterarguments for all the points I've made, I know them all. But arguing the points is another example of the hackernews type toxic thinking. You don't need the counterarguments. You know that the changes you recommend work, because they worked for you.

Fair enough. But magnesium worked for me, and I didn't even have to give up meat. Chances are switching to a mostly-plants non-shit diet would have given me the same effect, but my way is soooo much easier. If all someone needs to not be depressed anymore is a vitamin, then damn, they need to know what that vitamin is. Because when you're depressed, healthy eating is really unlikely to happen. You NEED the shortcut.

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#185

Post by fusillijerry89 »

bicubic wrote: post #178
fusillijerry89 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry man but I have to butt in here. The culture of hacker news-type thinking can be very toxic and lead to such thoughts as "I just wish there was a better way to figure out your deficiency than just popping some pills and wait to see what happens. A weekly blood test for vitamin levels combined with mood and health journaling would probably give me the kind of data I'm looking for, but that only seems to be availa…

The reason people are looking to science for this problem is because science has historically been at the forefront of every medical breakthrough. You're suggesting to give it up in favor of what? Some 'radically change your diet' bullshit that you haven't backed up with a single piece of objective evidence? You're really advocating snake oil over engineering? That's not to say that radical diet changes don't work, b…

Somebody is overly sensitive. Science has no place for the sensitive.

You have no idea who I am. I could be a pretty smart guy for all you know.

History repeats itself because of people who think they are above it. What you say here worries me.

Be careful. You are a citizen of the echo chamber now.

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#186

Post by fusillijerry89 »

projektir wrote: post #176
fusillijerry89 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry man but I have to butt in here. The culture of hacker news-type thinking can be very toxic and lead to such thoughts as "I just wish there was a better way to figure out your deficiency than just popping some pills and wait to see what happens. A weekly blood test for vitamin levels combined with mood and health journaling would probably give me the kind of data I'm looking for, but that only seems to be availa…

Please source or argue your claims. > Why does the solution have to involve technology? Because technology has the potential to be more powerful than other solutions. Your suggestion, and the direction of your post in general, sounds like moralism. Moralistic suggestions have more to do with virtue and privilege signaling than actual results. I am generally extremely suspicious of any advice that comes from a moralis…

I used to think people on this forum were smart..

Firstly certain plants do have vitamin d. But that wasn't my point.

Secondly, and more importantly you are forgetting that there is synergy between different vitamins,hormones,etc. Having vitamin d deficiency doesn't necessarily mean all you need to do is bump up your vit d.

Thirdly, he found out it was magnesium, not vit d. Curiously, there are interactions between the two.

Go do some research on fasting, calorie restriction, angiogenesis, inflammation, ketones, microbiota, etc

Or better yet, go get some real world experience and stop reading so much. There's such a thing as trying to be overly scientific and missing the forest for the trees.

Science is of course right, but so many people on this forum overapply it thinking they are so clever. They miss obvious insights.

It's a part of being young I guess.

Or you could just say "please back up your arguments for me because I am too lazy to use my own brain to think."

Spoonfeed meee!!!!!

Newb

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#187

Post by mirimir »

JasonSage wrote: post #121

> Most people’s natural cycle is somewhat longer than the 24-hour solar day, which means that, left to our own devices, we would get quickly get out of sync with the external world. I've always had very bad issues sleeping and waking "on time." In school this led to me regularly missing class and eventually dropping school entirely, and with regular work schedules I hardly ever got good sleep. A little while ago, I m…

Thanks for posting this. My diurnal cycle is also ~25 hours. But my schedule is more chaotic, in that working and sleeping times depend on work, personal and social commitments. And of course, I freelance.

Edit: I've been doing this for decades.

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#189

Post by austinjp »

fusillijerry89 wrote: post #185
bicubic wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people are looking to science for this problem is because science has historically been at the forefront of every medical breakthrough. You're suggesting to give it up in favor of what? Some 'radically change your diet' bullshit that you haven't backed up with a single piece of objective evidence? You're really advocating snake oil over engineering? That's not to say that radical diet changes don't work, b…

Somebody is overly sensitive. Science has no place for the sensitive. You have no idea who I am. I could be a pretty smart guy for all you know. History repeats itself because of people who think they are above it. What you say here worries me. Be careful. You are a citizen of the echo chamber now.

Ah come off it, this is a disappointing response. You may be right but nobody reading this would have any reason to believe so. At the most basic level, if you believe that diet change beats supplementation or fixes the problems claimed, you have surely done research into this beyond personal experimentation. If you share your work then you are likely to persuade more people, and hence encourage better health behaviours among your your ​peers -- assuming your findings to be true and reproducible.

Conversely, if you say you've got all the answers and everyone else just needs to reproduce your hard work, but you won't share your process or results, you can expect to antagonise people.

This applies throughout life and not just in "science".

Re: Can sleep deprivation cure depression?

#190

Post by ramshorns »

JasonSage wrote: post #121

> Most people’s natural cycle is somewhat longer than the 24-hour solar day, which means that, left to our own devices, we would get quickly get out of sync with the external world. I've always had very bad issues sleeping and waking "on time." In school this led to me regularly missing class and eventually dropping school entirely, and with regular work schedules I hardly ever got good sleep. A little while ago, I m…

I do something like this once in a while. When I get sick of staying up late and sleeping in too many days in a row, I start going to bed about four hours later each night, and reset my schedule to normal within a week. This weekend has been a good time for it, with one less hour to get past.

28-Hour Day: https://xkcd.com/320/

What kind of latitude do you live at? I wonder if the schedule you're describing would be worse in the summer or in the winter.

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