Live data from Hacker News

What the CIA WikiLeaks Dump Tells Us: Encryption Works

nytimes.com

91–100 of 270 posts

Re: What the CIA WikiLeaks Dump Tells Us: Encryption Works

#91

The CIA WikiLeaks dump might only tell us the breaking through other parts of the communication chain are easier than decryption.

Yes, this has always been the case: defenders put a foot of armor plating on all of the doors and windows, and attackers look for the key hidden in the fake rock outside, and simply come in the front door.

Re: What the CIA WikiLeaks Dump Tells Us: Encryption Works

#92

The article mentions WhatsApp multiple times as a service that successfully made the transition to end-to-end encryption, but it always seemed to me that this claim is rather meaningless when we don't have the possibility of auditing their source code.

It seems that most people are completely in the dark when it comes to security, including myself, but there are some principles that should be unwavering that regularly get ignored again with every new iteration of "secure" software: * If there is a weak layer in the stack, from the physical layer to to UI, then the system is not secure. Even if your messaging app is secure, your messages are not secure if your OS is…

Source code isn't required to study what software may do.

If you were really worried about what a particular binary would do, trusting that the binary matched the source and studying runtime behavior would both be a waste of time compared to fully analyzing the binary in question.

If you treat the software as a black box and only study run time behavior, you have no idea if you have tripped a countermeasure that silences the malicious behavior; if you study the control flow directly, you can look for such countermeasures.

Re: What the CIA WikiLeaks Dump Tells Us: Encryption Works

#93
post #79
post #67

I don't see any mention of quantum computers in here so I thought I'd mention: the NSA themselves are concerned that quantum computing will be a great threat to encryption in the near future. Keep in mind that the NSA and god knows who else are storing encrypted communications to break them later. Quantum computing will defeat RSA, DH, ECC, asymmetric crypto, but it will only weaken symmetric crypto (eg. AES) by a fa…

Symmetric encryption not being broken doesn't really help you if the encryption key has been exchanged using a (presumably quantum-breakable) form of asymmetric encryption. Most encryption in the wild works this way.

That's understandable, since the point of asymmetric encryption is communication. But people can use symmetric encryption when it's about your own data security (i.e. you encrypt it, you decrypt it).

If you're using encryption to keep your data safe (e.g. local files, full disk encryption), then you don't actually need asymmetric encryption.

Re: What the CIA WikiLeaks Dump Tells Us: Encryption Works

#94
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Symmetric encryption not being broken doesn't really help you if the encryption key has been exchanged using a (presumably quantum-breakable) form of asymmetric encryption. Most encryption in the wild works this way.

That's understandable, since the point of asymmetric encryption is communication. But people can use symmetric encryption when it's about your own data security (i.e. you encrypt it, you decrypt it). If you're using encryption to keep your data safe (e.g. local files, full disk encryption), then you don't actually need asymmetric encryption.

Agreed. However, the kind of mass surveillance people are worried about isn't really concerned with personal data at rest. That data already requires targeted surveillance to get at.

Additionally... unless you generated all the bytes you are encrypting yourself without transmitting them over a network at any time... e.g. video/pictures you took yourself and then stored to your own encrypted disk, your data could be compromised by quantum-breakable encrypted communication protocols at the time of transmission. I would wager that most data worth surveilling goes over the network at some point using TLS.

Re: What the CIA WikiLeaks Dump Tells Us: Encryption Works

#95
post #67

I don't see any mention of quantum computers in here so I thought I'd mention: the NSA themselves are concerned that quantum computing will be a great threat to encryption in the near future. Keep in mind that the NSA and god knows who else are storing encrypted communications to break them later. Quantum computing will defeat RSA, DH, ECC, asymmetric crypto, but it will only weaken symmetric crypto (eg. AES) by a fa…

Yes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-quantum_cryptography Doubled key size does not mean twice as hard to break. Algorithm weaknesses are a thing. This WP is pretty accurate though. It describes the world we think will exist after legitimate quantum computing.

There is someone evidence that QM will result in weaker signals to the point where you can't use it to break real world crypto. It's something of an open question at this point.

Re: What the CIA WikiLeaks Dump Tells Us: Encryption Works

#96
post #80
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Symmetric encryption not being broken doesn't really help you if the encryption key has been exchanged using a (presumably quantum-breakable) form of asymmetric encryption. Most encryption in the wild works this way.

One thing you could do is to exchange the keys in a nonstandard way. Phone or whatever. Obviously still breakable but at least not by a standard dragnet.

If you're exchanging keys in person, I suggest looking into OTP, currently the only known mathematically unbreakable form of encryption, and so simple it has been used since at least World War I.

Re: What the CIA WikiLeaks Dump Tells Us: Encryption Works

#97
post #67

I don't see any mention of quantum computers in here so I thought I'd mention: the NSA themselves are concerned that quantum computing will be a great threat to encryption in the near future. Keep in mind that the NSA and god knows who else are storing encrypted communications to break them later. Quantum computing will defeat RSA, DH, ECC, asymmetric crypto, but it will only weaken symmetric crypto (eg. AES) by a fa…

> the NSA themselves are concerned that quantum computing will be a great threat to encryption in the near future.

pardon my ignorance. but, isn't this an inevitability? not just a possibility?

Re: What the CIA WikiLeaks Dump Tells Us: Encryption Works

#98
post #67

I don't see any mention of quantum computers in here so I thought I'd mention: the NSA themselves are concerned that quantum computing will be a great threat to encryption in the near future. Keep in mind that the NSA and god knows who else are storing encrypted communications to break them later. Quantum computing will defeat RSA, DH, ECC, asymmetric crypto, but it will only weaken symmetric crypto (eg. AES) by a fa…

Current quantum computers lack the amount of qubits required to implement practical quantum integer factorization (e.g: Shor's algorithm) at the scale required to break encryption.

For example the NIST standard for the controversial dual eliptic curve deterministic random bit generator standard, involves two numbers, p and q, which are 100 digit long. To date, largest integer factored in a quantum computer is reported to be around 200,000...

Re: What the CIA WikiLeaks Dump Tells Us: Encryption Works

#99
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's airgapped, how do you use it for communication?

I'm thinking about giving both machines a little speaker and microphone and using high frequency pulses to transfer the text. (modem) I don't know enough about computer security to understand whether a specially crafted piece of morse code audio (transferred through actual sound waves) could be used as an exploit, but I'm leaning towards "implausible".

Then my notebook is 'airgapped'. It connects to internet via wifi :). More seriously, if it connects through non popular means (such as a protocol over sound) it is just security through obscurity.

Re: What the CIA WikiLeaks Dump Tells Us: Encryption Works

#100
post #96
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing you could do is to exchange the keys in a nonstandard way. Phone or whatever. Obviously still breakable but at least not by a standard dragnet.

If you're exchanging keys in person, I suggest looking into OTP, currently the only known mathematically unbreakable form of encryption, and so simple it has been used since at least World War I.

Mathematically unbreakable if your pad is truly random
Post reply on HN