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How to never complete anything

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Re: How to never complete anything

#201

Post by startupdiscuss »

brazzledazzle wrote: post #168
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because "shipping" doesn't mean just posting it online randomly where nobody finds out. It's like saying "I have a Twitter account and nobody cares what I say, I never get a single reply or a like. Btw I have 0 followers". Shipping means getting it out there AND see what people think of it. If you at least tried to do that, you would have probably learned something. Even one person looking at your thing and gi…

It's not often I read a back-and-forth exchange like this and end up agreeing with both sides.

I thought the same thing.

And they both managed to keep it civil several responses in. (Although one of the people is definitely nicer than the other -- I won't say which).

Re: How to never complete anything

#202

Post by lukewrites »

splintercell wrote: post #183
lukewrites wrote: post #176

Two things have made a huge different in my ability to finish/ship: 1. External Deadlines. I'm a career teacher, mostly self-taught Python/Django developer, and am applying for dev jobs. The school year's over in June, and I want to be able to step into a new jr position in July/August. I'm planning to resign my position this spring, and cannot be out of work. My benefits and salary will stop in September. I'm f'ed i…

I came here to mention 'Deep work' (which I found a very effective way to do and talked about on HN previously [1]) AND another tactic which is giving me good results. The trick I found to complete things is: Do not switch ladders of abstractions. When working on a modern web application (with backend, frontend, css, testing etc) if you start with writing backend API calls, then just write all of them first. Starting…

Mental Models sounds fascinating, thanks for the suggestion.

Re: How to never complete anything

#203

Post by the_overseer »

vinceguidry wrote: post #45
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a rationalization and you know it. There are tons of other people who also think side project is a way to learn something new, yet they ship. Also there are tons of startups that started out as side projects. Facebook did. You have no excuse. Stop lying to yourself because it's not doing yourself any good. The only reason you're not releasing your side projects to the world is because you are afraid of critic…

Oh believe me, I did try. Moved in with a business cofounder and started working on an idea. We squabbled over a lot of things before I realized that it was a marriage and not a transaction, and what I wanted was more transactional. So I bailed and got a job. I still talk with the guy and fill out estimates for his potential clients whenever he wants. We'll eventually hack out a working professional relationship and…

A B C - Always Be Closing! In this case, always be shipping. I see a lot of resentment around here against the fact that you developers are always seen as lowly peons by managers. And here we have the perfect example why: this guy doesn't care about shipping, he only care about going into his little world and doing what he wants. This type of mentality leads to what we managers call 'coder mentality'. Programmers that see themselves as programmers instead of problem solvers. You need to get out of your head and realize that coding is just a tool to solve a problem. It's not something that you do just because. It makes no sense. Coding in of itself is useless. Problem solving though, is very useful. Some problems require only coding, some problems require some coding and other things, and other problems require no coding at all in order to be solved. You should always seek to solve problems that you and others have. Don't just go into your world and start coding. That will not make you a better programmer. We managers hate the 'coder' because he just wants to code and not solve business problems. That is why you are treated the way you are treated and will always command less respect than others. By the way, when things are down and we have to let people go, who do you think we let go first: the guy who shows interest in the business and how to make work better and cut costs, or the guy who just puts headphones on and starts coding surrounded by red bulls?

I'll leave you with the now famouse Glengarry Glen Ross Scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9XW6P0tiVc Always be shipping! You don't ship, you don't exist. When I hire I always ask about shipped products specifically. The things that didn't ship don't exist. I consider that wasted time. One shipped product means more than 1000 personal projects that didn't ship, no matter how much you think you learnt.

Re: How to never complete anything

#204

Post by twothamendment »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #38
vinceguidry wrote: post #17

I can't imagine ever shipping a side project. That's not why I build them. If I ever got to the point in my life where I do want my own company, a side project is not the way I want to go about it. Companies take a lot of work, that work has to be understood, then delegated and shared. The technology aspect is really only 10% of it. Sure, it's the essential 0-to-1 kicker that gets you going, but once that's done you…

This is a rationalization and you know it. There are tons of other people who also think side project is a way to learn something new, yet they ship. Also there are tons of startups that started out as side projects. Facebook did. You have no excuse. Stop lying to yourself because it's not doing yourself any good. The only reason you're not releasing your side projects to the world is because you are afraid of critic…

"The only reason you're not releasing your side projects to the world is because you are afraid of criticism."

No, I have side projects to learn and play. Lots of things I try end up in production code at work because I learned how to do it. Of the projects that are in pretty good shape I don't want to ship it because then I'm committed to supporting it. Shipping turns a side project into a job and unless I have a killer app that will make me some serious money - I have a job and I don't need another.

Re: How to never complete anything

#205

Post by paulddraper »

throwaway5356 wrote: post #184
RealityVoid wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find your OS example a little bit misplaced considering a quite complex OS can be completed by one person (obviously more complete than "hello world") but regardless of that, the commercial value of a new OS is quite low but the usefullness of learned (I'd say) is quite high.

Hell, even Terry A. David completed TempleOS, and he's mentally ill. So yeah you sure could complete and release shit, you just don't want to for some reason or other.

Turns out some crazy smart people are...crazy and smart.

Re: How to never complete anything

#206

Post by the_overseer »

mattbgates wrote: post #35

I pretty much go to work and code. Then I come home and code until I cannot code anymore and pass out from exhaustion. Good article. Started off with me thinking I actually wrote it. But I think you lack motivation to finish because you are content with the way your life is. I first started creating a project or two that were completely free. These projects helped me learn what people like and if people were even int…

I am a manager. Wanna know why other departments have advantages and yours doesn't? Because they are more important. Truth hurts, I know but bear with me. You've been programming for 20 years and not moved into management. That is a big huge red flag right there. It means you just like coding and don't care about the business. Business always comes first. For you it seems it doesn't. So it's only natural that you don't deserve the same respect as people who think, correctly, that cutting cost and improving profits is the only thing that matters. If you care about the business and care about making a much larger impact, go into management. Don't be a code monkey for life. We already have enough of those.

Re: How to never complete anything

#207

Post by mtdewcmu »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #38
vinceguidry wrote: post #17

I can't imagine ever shipping a side project. That's not why I build them. If I ever got to the point in my life where I do want my own company, a side project is not the way I want to go about it. Companies take a lot of work, that work has to be understood, then delegated and shared. The technology aspect is really only 10% of it. Sure, it's the essential 0-to-1 kicker that gets you going, but once that's done you…

This is a rationalization and you know it. There are tons of other people who also think side project is a way to learn something new, yet they ship. Also there are tons of startups that started out as side projects. Facebook did. You have no excuse. Stop lying to yourself because it's not doing yourself any good. The only reason you're not releasing your side projects to the world is because you are afraid of critic…

Side projects die because your initial enthusiasm wears off and you start to realize that you are midway through a project that you initiated for your own self amusement and it's no longer making you happy. Don't beat yourself up about walking away. It doesn't mean that you are a quitter and you'll never accomplish anything. It means that you need to find something more important to do. Important tasks are self-justifying; you don't have to talk yourself into working on them. When you find yourself on something important, your motivation will come. You will see it all the way through.

In the case of Facebook, I think it must have felt important, because it saw instant success around campus. Once you see that something is generating success, even on a relatively small scale, that starts to validate its importance and you can rationally consider increasing your commitment.

Re: How to never complete anything

#208

Post by freehunter »

stewbrew wrote: post #186
startupdiscuss wrote: post #171

Okay, I am going to share my secret for finishing. I discovered this late, but am glad I did. Are you ready for it? The secret is this: don't start something till you finish the last thing, no matter how poorly. This goes even at a "micro" level, so don't start distributing the load on servers till you finish the last thing (interface), no matter how poorly you finish the last thing. Now you have the secret. Go forth…

I beg to differ. Sometimes things need to settle down or you have to gain some distance. This can take months or even years. If you don't have an external deadline, you can afford finishing things when you are actually ready for it.

My wife gets frustrated when I set aside a side project or a hobby for a while and pick up a new one or return to an old one. She says she finds it difficult to support my new hobby knowing that my old one is languishing. But the way I see it, the day I have to work on a hobby, the day I need to put hours into a side project, that's the day it stops being a hobby. That's the day it stops being a side project. On that day, it officially becomes a second job, one that likely isn't paying me anything.

I have two half-finished Rails projects, a half-finished Arduino robot, and a guitar that hasn't been played in a couple of weeks. And you know what? They've all given me some joy, and have been set aside temporarily when that joy started to feel like work. That's the reason I switched majors away from computer science. I like programming. I don't like being forced to program. I don't like making software for someone else. It's a hobby for me. Not a job.

Re: How to never complete anything

#209

Post by XorNot »

vinceguidry wrote: post #17

I can't imagine ever shipping a side project. That's not why I build them. If I ever got to the point in my life where I do want my own company, a side project is not the way I want to go about it. Companies take a lot of work, that work has to be understood, then delegated and shared. The technology aspect is really only 10% of it. Sure, it's the essential 0-to-1 kicker that gets you going, but once that's done you…

I think I've released all my side projects to the world out of laziness: my Github account is not a carefully curated resume, it's just "things which were interesting enough to warrant source control".

Re: How to never complete anything

#210

Post by mezod »

derwildemomo wrote: post #72
mezod wrote: post #69

I keep finishing things. I do MVPs, but they are so simple that noone really cares, and after all the effort I put into them. motivation is gone. So while I'd completely agree with this, every day that goes by I disagree more.

Just my two cents, but I just looked at http://everydaycheck.com and I think it's both a great idea and (from what I can judge) well executed. Also one piece of advice: Do Shown HNs more often. For me, they are regularly an great source for feedback.

Thanks :)

I don't really want to spam HN but I might give it another try and see if I can get some feedback :p

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