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Password Rules Are Bullshit

blog.codinghorror.com

181–190 of 283 posts

Re: Password Rules Are Bullshit

#181
Ten years ago I thought we were all going to solve this with OpenID and strong protections on the provider side. [1] What happened? I know a bunch of providers moved on to OAuth which let users authorized 3rd parties to do stuff on their behalf. And then at some point we decided v1 was hopelessly broken and moved to v2. But today it's still the rare event where I can login with my {Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo!} account.

[1] U2F, authorized devices, predictive phishing protections, etc.

Re: Password Rules Are Bullshit

#182
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? Because my password in the "create" page was silently truncated on the front end, but the same truncation does not occur in all places, so I would type a longer password on the login page then what was registered in the system and it would fail. Here's an even worse one than truncating the end of long passwords: truncating internal whitespace The change/reset password dialog for Apple ID does this. If your pas…

Oh yeah! Freedompop actually transformed a space into a "+" (or vice versa). And this is just free internet I set up for my dad. Took us like an hour to figure that one out.

I'm guessing whatever they used as an HTTP client did it for them. It's a fairly common way to encode spaces (the alternative being %20 of course - encoding as "+" looks much cleaner).

Re: Password Rules Are Bullshit

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I simply type passwords in the answers. "What is your mother's maiden name?" - "gHk899iL@"

Annoyingly,some sites have started putting limits and validations on their security question answers...

Ran into one where it demanded I choose from a drop-down list, e.g. "What was your first pet" had "dog", "cat", "hamster", "gerbil", etc. I recall the list having a scrollbar, but there was not even enough choices for eight bits worth of entropy.

Oh, and they referred to these security questions as "2FA."

Re: Password Rules Are Bullshit

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enforced password reset questions. There's a limited set of about 10 questions (trivial stuff like "where were you born?"), and you have to set 3 of them. About half a year ago, I was forced to do this in order to be able to log in again (I'm only occasionally using it for publishing iOS apps). What is this, Hotmail in 2005?

And the questions haven't changed in decades. It's pretty simple to figure out things like "name of high school attended", "street you grew up on", "model of first car", "mother's maiden name", etc for just about anyone who has a social media account.

Here's a sample of mine:

Model of first car? zSuI2LR9DvDYwr04 (drop top!)

First city visited? GGSrqPB78tcJ2WB9 (what a trip!)

Street you grew up on? 1pAXzzns5owXNYiU (very quiet!)

Favorite food? oEW5AQ738bkGf6rj (it's delicious!)

High school attended? 3i5OfyNhnWD0bQVy (go Nonces!)

Re: Password Rules Are Bullshit

#185
post #25

I agree with almost everything but the he loses me towards the end: > I had a bit of a sad when I realized that we were perfectly fine with users selecting a 10 character password that was literally "aaaaaaaaaa". In my opinion, the simplest way to do this is to ensure that there are at least (x) unique characters out of (y) total characters. Isn't that exactly what you're complaining about with your arbitrary passwor…

yeah i'm on your side. I randomly generated a password one time that ended up with 3 repeated characters. I used it because, hey p-random is p-random i'm not gonna argue. Unfortunately the site it was for rejected it.

I've since had to change my random generator to avoid 3 of a kind, which actually makes it less random/secure i believe.. pruned some branches off of the search tree.. especially since i've now told everyone ;)

Re: Password Rules Are Bullshit

#186
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two ways why I think E-Mails are useful at signup: - Password Recovery (this can be optional though, for my sites it usually is) - 'Legit Users', sending an email and having them confirmed through a code in them gives a bit more confidence in the user

'legit users' There isn't a day that goes by that I don't get an email intended for someone else, often including personal information, due to a mistyped email address. Whoever decided that email verification was a poor user experience needs to be hit in the head with a shovel after he digs the appropriate sized hole. If you know Catherin (PA) let her know her round trip to vegas is confirmed Carolyn's (NYC) open tab…

How generic is your email address? This has literally never happened to me (to my recollection).

Re: Password Rules Are Bullshit

#187
Password rules are one of those bike-shedding moments project managers and clients love so much. To show their brilliance, they invent complex password rules, define database field lengths and ask for infinite scroll on everything. Can't expect a code monkey to do the job right.

Re: Password Rules Are Bullshit

#188
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the questions haven't changed in decades. It's pretty simple to figure out things like "name of high school attended", "street you grew up on", "model of first car", "mother's maiden name", etc for just about anyone who has a social media account.

Here's a sample of mine: Model of first car? zSuI2LR9DvDYwr04 ( drop top! ) First city visited? GGSrqPB78tcJ2WB9 ( what a trip! ) Street you grew up on? 1pAXzzns5owXNYiU ( very quiet! ) Favorite food? oEW5AQ738bkGf6rj ( it's delicious! ) High school attended? 3i5OfyNhnWD0bQVy ( go Nonces! )

As my dad pointed out, the answers are passwords. If you restricted passwords to every possible make of car, for example, it would be incredibly weak - too little total entropy in the possible answers.

(Love the name of the high school mascot, by the way!)

Re: Password Rules Are Bullshit

#189
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am being serious when I ask this question: does anybody brute force passwords? Very many people. And not all systems stop them from doing so. And database leaks happen all the time too...

It wouldn't really matter how good your password was in the leak/breach scenario would it?

[deleted]

Re: Password Rules Are Bullshit

#190
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a sample of mine: Model of first car? zSuI2LR9DvDYwr04 ( drop top! ) First city visited? GGSrqPB78tcJ2WB9 ( what a trip! ) Street you grew up on? 1pAXzzns5owXNYiU ( very quiet! ) Favorite food? oEW5AQ738bkGf6rj ( it's delicious! ) High school attended? 3i5OfyNhnWD0bQVy ( go Nonces! )

As my dad pointed out, the answers are passwords . If you restricted passwords to every possible make of car, for example, it would be incredibly weak - too little total entropy in the possible answers. (Love the name of the high school mascot, by the way!)

> As my dad pointed out, the answers are passwords. If you restricted passwords to every possible make of car, for example, it would be incredibly weak - too little total entropy in the possible answers.

United Airlines does exactly this and it's hilariously insecure. The secret questions are preselected and the answers must be from their set of answers for each. There's only 8-10 choices for each (ex: Favorite music? pop / jazz / classical / etc).

> (Love the name of the high school mascot, by the way!)

There 10 types of people. Those that got that joke and ...

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