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How to never complete anything

ewanvalentine.io

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Re: How to never complete anything

#51

Post by exDM69 »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #38
vinceguidry wrote: post #17

I can't imagine ever shipping a side project. That's not why I build them. If I ever got to the point in my life where I do want my own company, a side project is not the way I want to go about it. Companies take a lot of work, that work has to be understood, then delegated and shared. The technology aspect is really only 10% of it. Sure, it's the essential 0-to-1 kicker that gets you going, but once that's done you…

This is a rationalization and you know it. There are tons of other people who also think side project is a way to learn something new, yet they ship. Also there are tons of startups that started out as side projects. Facebook did. You have no excuse. Stop lying to yourself because it's not doing yourself any good. The only reason you're not releasing your side projects to the world is because you are afraid of critic…

I'm in a similar situation to GP. I've done tons and tons of side projects but I rarely have anything to show for it.

And why should I? I'm doing it mostly for the fun of coding, and striving to "ship" things takes some of the fun away. I most certainly do not want to start a start up from any of my side projects. Perhaps an established open source project at most.

I do "release" my project, ie. push them to GitHub, but they don't really gather any attention or contributions from others. Sometimes I share some snippets in relevant discussions and receive positive feedback but I have no idea what it would take to actually gain any traction.

So I've basically given up on the idea of "finishing" or "shipping" or whatever. I have 3 hours of free time on Saturdays and I get to choose how to use it. I can either do fun stuff (coding, art, etc) or desperately try to "ship" and gain traction but that just isn't fun.

That said, if anyone is interested in open source space simulation (my current "main" side project, 5+ years in), get in touch on HN. There's no way I'll ever ship it alone, but it's nearly impossible to get anyone else to help me with it because I don't have anything cool and shiny to show.

Re: How to never complete anything

#52

Post by OliverJones »

Methinks our author is too hard on himself. Tinkering is a slow process that can seem undirected, for decades even.

Tinkering with stuff to figure out how it fits together is good. When the right project presents itself, the persistent tinkerer will be ready. She or he will have the advantage of knowing how to do the project.

Re: How to never complete anything

#53

Post by superasn »

I struggled through the same thing once I started with TDD. I've never had problems completing and shipping new products (a solo founder i launched 20 saas sites last year) but after reading dozens of documents about why TDD is an absolute must for any serious programmer my hubris got the best of me and I decided that I too will join the bandwagon. Boy, was i wrong.. Maybe for big teams it is a must but for solopreneurs and 2 people teams I wasted nearly 8 months before i realized that not only my productivity had rock bottomed but I started hating something that I once passionately loved. Since that day I went back to php and angular js.

I do get occasional this feature not working mails but at least I'm creating new sites again and making more money. If there is anything you want to take from this rant is don't waste your time doing things that other people are telling you to (how ironic). Do what you love and you will get shit done.

Re: How to never complete anything

#54

Post by cocktailpeanuts »

vinceguidry wrote: post #45
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a rationalization and you know it. There are tons of other people who also think side project is a way to learn something new, yet they ship. Also there are tons of startups that started out as side projects. Facebook did. You have no excuse. Stop lying to yourself because it's not doing yourself any good. The only reason you're not releasing your side projects to the world is because you are afraid of critic…

Oh believe me, I did try. Moved in with a business cofounder and started working on an idea. We squabbled over a lot of things before I realized that it was a marriage and not a transaction, and what I wanted was more transactional. So I bailed and got a job. I still talk with the guy and fill out estimates for his potential clients whenever he wants. We'll eventually hack out a working professional relationship and…

> Maybe your answer to this is to "just work harder." To that I just have to say, 'absolutely not'.

I said "ship" it. not work harder. You can even ship something you built in a couple of hours.

It IS ok to not ship every single project you work on, but it is not ok to be proud of how you never ship.

Personally in terms of "learning" I learned 90% of what I have learned AFTER shipping. You think you are learning but you are only scratching the surface.

Re: How to never complete anything

#55

Post by cocktailpeanuts »

exDM69 wrote: post #51
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a rationalization and you know it. There are tons of other people who also think side project is a way to learn something new, yet they ship. Also there are tons of startups that started out as side projects. Facebook did. You have no excuse. Stop lying to yourself because it's not doing yourself any good. The only reason you're not releasing your side projects to the world is because you are afraid of critic…

I'm in a similar situation to GP. I've done tons and tons of side projects but I rarely have anything to show for it. And why should I? I'm doing it mostly for the fun of coding, and striving to "ship" things takes some of the fun away. I most certainly do not want to start a start up from any of my side projects. Perhaps an established open source project at most. I do "release" my project, ie. push them to GitHub,…

I think you are doing great that you're releasing them into public, but your problem is you are not sharing it enough.

I have many friends who release things like you. I'm not saying you are doing this but these guys just release and make no effort to promote them. They are afraid that they will get hurt if they try hard and no one still wants their thing.

I understand this is totally valid fear and I have it too, but I also know that getting the word out vs not doing it makes a huge difference.

Next time you build a product try to post it online everywhere like Reddit and Show HN. I'm sure you'll gain more confidence and experience from it.

Re: How to never complete anything

#57

Post by poorman »

gerlv wrote: post #26

Ship daily This is the advice I can give to anyone who has a side project. Get to the point where you can show something to the users and just start adding stuff. Even if it's just two lines of code or changing the favicon - still worth it. In practice, it's harder to do than it sounds, but I've been doing it for some time and it's been going great. In reality, you won't have millions of users on day 1 no matter how…

Ship daily is the best advice.

Re: How to never complete anything

#59

Post by lubonay »

DizzyDoo wrote: post #49

I finished my side project a couple of years ago, released it, and then found I was able to quit my Python webdev job and go full time making video games. The key difference is that my project was a video game (this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwXl8lDrxn8 ) and that takes a lot of temptation to do what the OP is writing about, rewriting stuff in Haskell for example. The interesting bit when it comes to side…

Thanks for the inspiring story.

One question - how hard is it to actually deal with the administrative, non-code tasks of turning your side project into your main business? I'm talking about incorporation, supporting clients, basically all the stuff that goes on outside the source code repository.

Re: How to never complete anything

#60

Post by johnlbevan2 »

mattschmulen wrote: post #22
vinceguidry wrote: post #17

I can't imagine ever shipping a side project. That's not why I build them. If I ever got to the point in my life where I do want my own company, a side project is not the way I want to go about it. Companies take a lot of work, that work has to be understood, then delegated and shared. The technology aspect is really only 10% of it. Sure, it's the essential 0-to-1 kicker that gets you going, but once that's done you…

I agree with a lot of this. My one comment is that not all side projects are about a "full startup business". I shipped my 2 mo. side project this summer. Donors Choose Project Finder https://appsto.re/us/JVmbab.i . It was 100% pro bono , and to keep my skills sharp. So far over $20,000 in supported donations. Keep an eye open for the next set of features :)

Agreed; many side projects are just for fun, to create a tool that you want & you don't care if others want it (though you may or may not choose to share it having created it), to ship just to show your friends, or see how it does in the wild without caring about whether it generates cash; just hoping that a few people find it & appreciate what you've made.

Personally I'd hate to run my own business, since that means moving away from the code (even if you get another person to take care of the non-code stuff; you still have to go out and find the right person for that / get involved in things that you wouldn't otherwise choose to). That said I'd love to create something, put it out there, and have 5 people come back and say "thanks for this; you've fixed a problem that I was having"; to get 100 people say that would be even better; any more and I'd probably start to get upset as there would become expectations to start implementing things the user base was asking for, rather than just doing my own thing; which for a hobby project is all I'd want.

A lot of my side projects relate to my day job; I use my spare time to create tools which make my work life simpler. Sure the IPO belongs to my employer, but it means I remove frustrations from my working day without having to justify spending company time on the tools which allow that, and I can share these tools with colleagues so that my friends get the benefits too. That makes for a pleasant life.

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