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As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

latimes.com

131–139 of 139 posts

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the things you really have to accept if you want to lose weight - yes you will have to eat less, and yes you will feel hungry a lot.

You'd think that the link between "eating less" and "losing weight" is so well-proven that any subsequent study would re-validate it. Yet there's not a single study where 100% of participants who cut their caloric intake lost weight in 100% of the cases. The reports, at best, are "inconclusive". http://time.com/2809007/eat-less-exercise-more-isnt-the-answ... On a global scale countries low on the obesity scale (Japan…

Being obese and eating less or feeling hungry doesn't mean you're starving or malnourished. That's complete hyperbole.

The fact is if you're fat, you've conditioned yourself to eat too many calories, and eating a normal amount of calories will likely leave you feeling hungrier while you adjust.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think that the link between "eating less" and "losing weight" is so well-proven that any subsequent study would re-validate it. Yet there's not a single study where 100% of participants who cut their caloric intake lost weight in 100% of the cases. The reports, at best, are "inconclusive". http://time.com/2809007/eat-less-exercise-more-isnt-the-answ... On a global scale countries low on the obesity scale (Japan…

Being obese and eating less or feeling hungry doesn't mean you're starving or malnourished. That's complete hyperbole. The fact is if you're fat, you've conditioned yourself to eat too many calories, and eating a normal amount of calories will likely leave you feeling hungrier while you adjust.

And yet fasting diets do not consistently work, and it's the fattest countries of the world that have supermarket shelves full of low-calorie products (finding a low-calorie yogurt or low-fat cheese in a French supermarket would be a challenge)

http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(96)00456-1/abstract

"In the adult US population the prevalence of overweight rose from 25.4% from 1976 to 1980 to 33.3% from 1988 to 1991, a 31% increase. During the same period, average fat intake, adjusted for total calories, dropped from 41.0% to 36.6%, an 11% decrease. Average total daily calorie intake also tended to decrease, from 1,854 kcal to 1,785 kcal (−4%). Men and women had similar trends. Concurrently, there was a dramatic rise in the percentage of the US population consuming low-calorie products, from 19% of the population in 1978 to 76% in 1991. From 1986 to 1991 the prevalence of sedentary lifestyle represented almost 60% of the US population, with no change over time."

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#133
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you cutout the obvious high calorie culprits like sugar, 400 calories is a pretty decent sized, healthy meal. Cutting out a meal a day is really hard to do. Hunger sucks, and had a lot of negative impacts on the rest of your day.

Yes, losing 30 pounds in a year will involve skipping about 1 meal per day and is not easy at all actually.

(Anecdotally) It gets easier as time goes on, and you can use intermittent fasting [1] to halve the amount of days with restriction and still maintain a net loss.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13825676

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#134
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the link: "While this study didn’t track the women’s eating and movement habits away from the lab, it is likely that those who gained weight began eating more and moving less when they weren’t on the treadmills, “probably without meaning to,” Dr. Gaesser said." Expending more calories via exercise increases one's weight when you eat more calories than you burned. There's nothing new there.

The number of studies where participants ate less, engaged in more exercise and consistently lost weight is 0, though. You'd think with a thesis this obvious it should be relatively easy to reproduce. Hard to discuss the specifics of this exact experiment without knowing the details, but you have the control group that admits they have a weight problem and honestly tries to lose weight by signing up for this experime…

The number of studies that you're personally aware of may be zero. I'm not confident in your knowledge of the state of research when you missed the fact that they didn't even track diet in the study you linked to prove your thesis.

There are thousands of examples online of people who've lost weight and maintained that weight loss, not to mention the thousands of people who manipulate their weight at will to compete in events with weight classes.

Studies about diet and exercise are usually poorly designed and poorly funded, so they don't always accurately reflect reality and the existence of thousands of successes isn't invalidated by a poorly run study. Nor is our knowledge of basic physiology.

Rule of thumb: any study that relies on self-reporting diets is basically useless. It's not about lying. People are just really bad at measurement unless they explicitly measure every gram of food that enters their mouth. Intentions don't affect the quality of an implementation if you don't know how to implement something successfully. People who are underweight tend to eat less than they think and people who are overweight tend to eat more than they think.

Note that studies in which the number of calories a person consumes are tracked by the researchers leave no ambiguity in the direct relationship between the number of calories a person consumes and how their weight changes.

Distilling these issues into one of willpower is just incredibly misguided IMO and reflective more of the views of journalists who struggle with their weight and pass on the results of poorly designed studies. I addressed what I thought was a better way of looking at these issues in another comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13827878

It's not as though Americans have "lost willpower" over the course of a couple generations. We just started eating more and moving less.

Why we started eating more isn't a mystery. Agriculture and food companies started processing food to be less satiating and more addictive by adding sugar and fat to sell more (a massive simplification of history, admittedly). Obesity wasn't an epidemic back when we were eating whole foods since they're so much more satiating and it's difficult to maintain a caloric surplus on a diet of lentils and vegetables or whatever.

As countries like France, China, Japan, and others who have more recently maintained their normal weights on a population level get introduced to these processed Western foods, they too are seeing their rates of obesity, heart disease, and diabetes go up.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#135
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's not incorrect. By thermodynamics it's impossible you are gaining weight by not consuming more calories than what you are spending, you don't absorb this energy out of thin air or radiation, you've eaten it, not used and your body has stored it. It can be that our models for calculating TDEE, etc. are wrong and not accounting for a multitude of factors that might affect energy expenditure but still, it boil…

Calorie is a unit of energy. Wooden logs have calories, and so does paper and chalk. Leaving safety concerns aside, I cannot substitute my salad with some paper I can get from the shredder. If I did, I am unlikely to get extremely obese on shredded paper diet, as most of it is fiber, so it just hits the output channel of the digestive track. Calorie present != calorie consumed != calorie processed by digestive system…

The idea that biologists aren't aware of the difference in the digestibility of paper versus lettuce is just insultingly ignorant.

There's a reason why you lose weight if you have a tapeworm or have chronic diarrhea while eating the same amount of food isn't a mystery to the scientific community.

Most people don't see that much variation between the calories that pass their mouths and those that are digested by their GI tract. It's usually constant enough that calories in - calories out is enough to figure out how much you need to eat to lose weight. Even if there was a disparity between calories consumed and calories processed by the GI tract, that would only present itself as a "higher/lower metabolism" and wouldn't mean lowering calories wouldn't work to lower weight.

You can't get around physics and biology.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#136
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of studies where participants ate less, engaged in more exercise and consistently lost weight is 0, though. You'd think with a thesis this obvious it should be relatively easy to reproduce. Hard to discuss the specifics of this exact experiment without knowing the details, but you have the control group that admits they have a weight problem and honestly tries to lose weight by signing up for this experime…

The number of studies that you're personally aware of may be zero. I'm not confident in your knowledge of the state of research when you missed the fact that they didn't even track diet in the study you linked to prove your thesis. There are thousands of examples online of people who've lost weight and maintained that weight loss, not to mention the thousands of people who manipulate their weight at will to compete i…

> The number of studies that you're personally aware of may be zero.

That is correct. I am happy to fill that knowledge gap, though, if you have any links handy.

> studies in which the number of calories a person consumes are tracked by the researchers leave no ambiguity in the direct relationship between the number of calories a person consumes and how their weight changes

Can you point me to those?

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#137
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calorie is a unit of energy. Wooden logs have calories, and so does paper and chalk. Leaving safety concerns aside, I cannot substitute my salad with some paper I can get from the shredder. If I did, I am unlikely to get extremely obese on shredded paper diet, as most of it is fiber, so it just hits the output channel of the digestive track. Calorie present != calorie consumed != calorie processed by digestive system…

The idea that biologists aren't aware of the difference in the digestibility of paper versus lettuce is just insultingly ignorant. There's a reason why you lose weight if you have a tapeworm or have chronic diarrhea while eating the same amount of food isn't a mystery to the scientific community. Most people don't see that much variation between the calories that pass their mouths and those that are digested by their…

> you lose weight if you have a tapeworm or have chronic diarrhea while eating the same amount

Okay, but that seems like an outlier case. The study I am looking for would be summarized roughly as "100 fat people start on a lower-calorie diet and increase their exercise routine over the course of 180 days. 98% of them (some statistical variation to account for weird genetics) consistently lose X pounds, a large group (60-70%) loses as many as Y pounds".

Most experiments that were set up that way either ended up reporting the results "inconclusive", or worse, as the caloric intake generally decreased, the weight increased http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(96)00456-1/abstract

I am looking for the one, or two, or a dozen, that doesn't. Should be relatively easy to replicate.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excercise doesn't do much for you when it comes to weight loss. You have to run excessive distances to burn food that'll take you just a moment to simply not eat.

If cutting food was the answer, then fasting would be a conclusive answer to weight loss. It's not. All the obese people you see walking around are not suffering from a lack of willpower to go on a fasting diet. All the thin people you see walking around are not meticulously tracking their calorie intake and burn.

All the pepole that are consistently eating 1500-1800 calories per day and are not bedridden are loosing weight and getting thin or less fat regardless of calorie counting and willpower.

There are people who eat more and still are thin but if you are not one of those people they should be none of your concern similarily to how people who inherited wealth - what they do - is meningless for person that was born poor, is poor and wants to get bit richer.

And fasting is conclusive anwer to weight loss if you can enforce it.

If you were in charge of getting inmate less fat that's exactly what you would order and he'd loose weight.

The problem with fasting in real world is that weight loss is not the only thing it affects end you can't ignore the side effects like you could do with an inmate.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#139
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of studies that you're personally aware of may be zero. I'm not confident in your knowledge of the state of research when you missed the fact that they didn't even track diet in the study you linked to prove your thesis. There are thousands of examples online of people who've lost weight and maintained that weight loss, not to mention the thousands of people who manipulate their weight at will to compete i…

> The number of studies that you're personally aware of may be zero. That is correct. I am happy to fill that knowledge gap, though, if you have any links handy. > studies in which the number of calories a person consumes are tracked by the researchers leave no ambiguity in the direct relationship between the number of calories a person consumes and how their weight changes Can you point me to those?

I don't really keep a list of the studies I read, but Examine.com is a great resource for people without the scientific background and training in reading the research literature.

These two links are great starting points, and link to the studies if you feel like reading them:

https://examine.com/nutrition/what-should-i-eat-for-weight-l...

https://examine.com/nutrition/does-metabolism-vary-between-t...

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