Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A subterranean world of water offers a glimpse of Ramla’s past

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 56 posts

Re: A subterranean world of water offers a glimpse of Ramla’s past

#21

Post by truetraveller »

badminton1 wrote: post #10

In 1258, after the Siege of Baghdad by the mongols, the golden age of Islam ended. Scholars were killed, buildings were sacked, infrastructure was destroyed. Islamic Spain (Al-Andalus) survived temporarily. In Spain, the city of Cordoba in Andalusia was objectively the most advanced in all of Europe. After Al-Andalus was lost to Europeans, the Latin translations of the 12th century occurred. Those Latin translations,…

Why is this person being downvoted? Let's face it, the West in general does a great job of not giving credit to Muslims as it should. Chemistry, Algebra, Algorithms, Astronomy, the Scientific Method, etc.

Re: A subterranean world of water offers a glimpse of Ramla’s past

#22

Post by jlebrech »

truetraveller wrote: post #17
jlebrech wrote: post #11

The title should say "Arabic golden age" the secular attributes alone of the Arab culture created that golden age. In fact the golden age ENDED for religious reasons (just like the Catholic church did with Galileo for example) before the Mongols invaded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwXtTwNvWXc and http://www.patheos.com/blogs/marginoferr/2014/06/05/lets-sto...

Note: I'm not taking sides, but just trying to be factual. This is very misleading. It was, in fact, Islam that was the cause of the 'golden age'. The Arabs existed for centuries with ~nil progress. If you notice, almost 99% of the inventors were Muslims, and based on their writings, dedicated ones.

they did a lot of hostile takeovers and suffered later on from a culture problem.

Re: A subterranean world of water offers a glimpse of Ramla’s past

#24

Post by kissickas »

jlebrech wrote: post #16
pm90 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not as simple as that. I will reply later with a more detailed response but a common religion most certainly helped the Islamic empires (whether Arabs or Persians or Mughals) immensely by providing an almost contiguous corridor of co-coreligionists stretching from Anatolia all the way to India; this greatly facilitated trade.

Islam helped drive large projects that wouldn't have been completed in one's life time. One admirable attribute of Islam is that they can plan ahead like the west use to do with tunnels and bridges for example, nowadays projects are not planned to take more than 20 years, in the Muslim world they still are.

Does that have anything to do with Islam or more with autocracy? I'm not being snarky, I live in Saudi Arabia and certainly see the benefits of having an autocratic government for some things. I'm not sure religion plays a bigger role here in planning than it would anywhere else, though.

Re: A subterranean world of water offers a glimpse of Ramla’s past

#25

Post by [deleted] »

truetraveller wrote: post #21
badminton1 wrote: post #10

In 1258, after the Siege of Baghdad by the mongols, the golden age of Islam ended. Scholars were killed, buildings were sacked, infrastructure was destroyed. Islamic Spain (Al-Andalus) survived temporarily. In Spain, the city of Cordoba in Andalusia was objectively the most advanced in all of Europe. After Al-Andalus was lost to Europeans, the Latin translations of the 12th century occurred. Those Latin translations,…

Why is this person being downvoted? Let's face it, the West in general does a great job of not giving credit to Muslims as it should. Chemistry, Algebra, Algorithms, Astronomy, the Scientific Method, etc.

[deleted]

Re: A subterranean world of water offers a glimpse of Ramla’s past

#26

Post by dreen »

truetraveller wrote: post #17
jlebrech wrote: post #11

The title should say "Arabic golden age" the secular attributes alone of the Arab culture created that golden age. In fact the golden age ENDED for religious reasons (just like the Catholic church did with Galileo for example) before the Mongols invaded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwXtTwNvWXc and http://www.patheos.com/blogs/marginoferr/2014/06/05/lets-sto...

Note: I'm not taking sides, but just trying to be factual. This is very misleading. It was, in fact, Islam that was the cause of the 'golden age'. The Arabs existed for centuries with ~nil progress. If you notice, almost 99% of the inventors were Muslims, and based on their writings, dedicated ones.

What about the Persian empires, the Sassanids for instance? They had built huge military and civic structures, and rivalled the Roman Empire in many areas, but weren't as expansionist. Please correct me if I'm wrong, not a historian but it seems to me whatever the 'golden age' was, it would happen regardless of whether the dominant religion was Islam, Arian Christianity or whatever else.

Re: A subterranean world of water offers a glimpse of Ramla’s past

#27

Post by jdhn »

cjcenizal wrote: post #18

This article reminds me of a book written by Kim Stanley Robinson, "The Years of Rice and Salt". It's a historical fiction which explores a history in which the bubonic plague wiped out Europe, precluding Western civilization as we know it. The cultural and religious vacuum left behind is filled by Islam, Buddhism, and the Chinese dynasties. Robinson explores the evolution of humanity over the next 600 years under th…

I second this recommendation. If you're a person who enjoys historical fiction, you'll love this book. I found it a tad difficult at first, but it quickly sucks you in.

Re: A subterranean world of water offers a glimpse of Ramla’s past

#28

Post by dliotev »

There was no "golden age" in Islam, unless you think that an age of slaughter, murder and enslavement can be called "golden".

Sam Harris on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I2WyY_R_hA

Bill Warner on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwXtTwNvWXc

Re: A subterranean world of water offers a glimpse of Ramla’s past

#29

Post by pm90 »

kissickas wrote: post #24
jlebrech wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Islam helped drive large projects that wouldn't have been completed in one's life time. One admirable attribute of Islam is that they can plan ahead like the west use to do with tunnels and bridges for example, nowadays projects are not planned to take more than 20 years, in the Muslim world they still are.

Does that have anything to do with Islam or more with autocracy? I'm not being snarky, I live in Saudi Arabia and certainly see the benefits of having an autocratic government for some things. I'm not sure religion plays a bigger role here in planning than it would anywhere else, though.

Good point. I think its a little bit of both. I don't think you need autocracy as much as a strong state: and Islamic states were pretty strong. But the common religion basically meant that a muslim in India could travel to Baghdad and have something in common. It meant that technological advancements in one part of the world would travel faster to the other. That skilled people could travel to different countries...and religious scholars as well. I believe this contributed a lot to the progress in Islamic society during this time.

Re: A subterranean world of water offers a glimpse of Ramla’s past

#30

Post by aaron-lebo »

dliotev wrote: post #28

There was no "golden age" in Islam, unless you think that an age of slaughter, murder and enslavement can be called "golden". Sam Harris on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I2WyY_R_hA Bill Warner on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwXtTwNvWXc

That's an incredibly narrow view of history.

Islam was the religion of a pretty varied number of empires over centuries. Within those centuries you will find many examples of brutality as well as real triumphs for humanity. Islam in particular has strong views about supporting the poor in society.

You can look at every single culture or person and you are gonna find a mixed bag. It's hard to argue that Islam did not at some point contribute greatly to progress unless you are viewing the actions of people a millennium ago in light of modern morals and knowledge.

It's not an objective way of looking at history.

Post reply on HN