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Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

leginfo.legislature.ca.gov

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Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#421

Post by nodamage »

refurb wrote: post #241
nodamage wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance companies acting as profit-seeking middlemen between doctors and patients create a perverse incentive to drive up costs on both ends. It's a terrible feedback loop caused by treating health care (which is ultimately a cost center) as a for-profit enterprise. Every other modern country has managed to figure this out except the United States.

* It's a terrible feedback loop caused by treating health care (which is ultimately a cost center) as a for-profit enterprise.* Ummm... you do realize that many other countries with universal coverage rely on private insurance, right?

Not really the same thing. Insurers in a purely for-profit marketplace will always be incentivized to reject coverage for people with pre-existing conditions and drop coverage for people who become sick, because both groups are unprofitable to treat. The only way to avoid this is with strict regulations preventing insurers from doing what's in their own best interests at the expense of everyone else.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#422

Post by carterehsmith »

tylersmith wrote: post #413
carterehsmith wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok so I am curious about the "collectivism" story. I mean, we as species have been talking care of our elderly and injured for like what, 50,000 years or 100,000 years or whatever? Seems to be working well. And, if we all chip in, we can have nice things. Roads, water, electricity, museums, libraries, courts, police, etc. Is that bad?

If it's voluntary absolutely not. But when people fetishize collectivism the natural result is forced collectivism, which is just a rationalization of theft, robbery, and usually murder. That is bad.

"forced collectivism". Ok, I guess you are from China. Did you experience theft, robbery and murder?

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#423

Post by tylersmith »

carterehsmith wrote: post #422
tylersmith wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's voluntary absolutely not. But when people fetishize collectivism the natural result is forced collectivism, which is just a rationalization of theft, robbery, and usually murder. That is bad.

"forced collectivism". Ok, I guess you are from China. Did you experience theft, robbery and murder?

Theft and robbery certainly. But obviously I have not been murdered which is nice. Luckier than manyl

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#425

Post by seanmcdirmid »

piedpiper_ wrote: post #408
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's starting to sound like civilization. When we live together, I don't want to subsidize your poor decisions. If you want to live your life alone in a forest somewhere, you can pay no tax and make all your own decisions.

What does this have to do with healthcare? Is it a right or a privilege? Your answer to that question makes it clear why we likely disagree. Healthcare is a SERVICE that someone PROVIDES to you for MONEY. It has a tangible COST. It is not a RIGHT which is something that WE as a COLLECTIVE have determined WE individually possess (liberty, right to bare arms, freedom of press, right to assemble, etc) That is the bedroc…

But there are more than 325 million people covered by socialized medicine in the EU. Why is that unrealistic?

Heck, it could even help our economy, because you probably don't buy your own health insurance anyways, but get it from work. Take away that burden from the companies, and it could actually make them more competitive.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#426

Post by ThomPete »

nikdaheratik wrote: post #390
ThomPete wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has very little effect if any. denmark have a true single payer system and social wellfare program you can only dream of in the us. Yet the number of startups created are declining just like ine the us. It creates a very different mindset.

We don't know what the effect would be since we've never had a single payer system. In addition, Europe has a number of other labor laws that do not exist in the U.S. as well as other corporate regulations so there is no apples-to-apples comparison. So I agree that adding single payer or changing the healthcare system to have more government involvement probably won't have much effect, but I don't agree that the sing…

Not what i said. Look at parent to what i am answering. Current system was positioned as a burden for startups, my point is simply that healthcare is a burden no matter whst and that changing the system wont make it less a burden, it will just have consequences other places.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#428

Post by DanBC »

mcbruiser wrote: post #285
mmanfrin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[2] is about CalPERS, which is separate from the budget of the State. There may be a current budget shortfall, but CalPERS is fine (it is the largest non-country pension fund in the world; and comes in the top 10 when listed among countries). [3] mentions that tax revenues will fall because of the end of temporary tax increases; those increases are likely to be renewed. Categorizing these as 'severe budget issues' is…

> I'm sure as shit happy to pay more in taxes for a universal single single-payer. I Great, you can opt in to that, but don't force everyone else who doesn't agree with you to subsidize everyone else's poor decisions

You already subsidise healthcare.

The US government spends more per capita on health than the UK government does.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#429

Post by FullMtlAlcoholc »

piedpiper_ wrote: post #407
dariopy wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA #1? What are you talking about? The state with the highest tax burden is NY. CA doesn't even make it to the top 10. https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-bur...

California has the highest income tax rate in the nation which directly impacts entrepreneurs starting a business (if they are successful and create wealth). Why would any sane person want to shave off an extra 13 cents for every dollar they make when they're already losing 40 cents per dollar from the federal government? This is why many entrepreneurs are choosing states with low or no income tax and leaving CA and…

> Why would any sane person want to shave off an extra 13 cents for every dollar they make when they're already losing 40 cents per dollar from the federal government?

The beautiful weather, the beautiful people, the amazing weather, the topographical diversity that allows you to surf and snowboard on the same day, the amazing hikes, the national parks, the ability to bike to work year round. Silicon Valley "manages" to attract a lot of entrepreneurs, but maybe you think they're all insance?

You could eliminate all taxes and I still wouldn't choose to live in Texas or Florida. You could increase my salary 10x and I wouldn't move to Nebraska, the Dakotas, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas, or Iowa. Then again, you could hire for remote positions if you need devs.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#430

Post by SamPhillips »

piedpiper_ wrote: post #407
dariopy wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA #1? What are you talking about? The state with the highest tax burden is NY. CA doesn't even make it to the top 10. https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-bur...

California has the highest income tax rate in the nation which directly impacts entrepreneurs starting a business (if they are successful and create wealth). Why would any sane person want to shave off an extra 13 cents for every dollar they make when they're already losing 40 cents per dollar from the federal government? This is why many entrepreneurs are choosing states with low or no income tax and leaving CA and…

You mean, other than the insane people at: Apple, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Oracle, HP, Uber... Clearly some successful entrepreneurs find that the 13 cents to still be worth it to have access to the talent and ecosystem. Perhaps there is something about liberal policies that encourages more successful entrepreneurism. Massachusetts, with best-in-the-nation insurance coverage thanks to RomneyCare also as an outsized tech scene.
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