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As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

latimes.com

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Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#101

Post by brightsize »

quotemstr wrote: post #31
lacampbell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? We all know the secret to not being obese. Asking the government to step in and help us just seems... childish. Are we not adults? Do we have no agency?

> At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? This question touches on some very deep and controversial ideas kicking around in the current conversation. The question of whether we have an inherent "human nature", a biological substrate that informs our capabilities and behavior, touches on everything from education to tech employment. I don't want to debate the subject gener…

Far more people in the past, say pre-1980, seemed to be able to deal with these phenomena and avoid obesity. 'The average weight for men rose "dramatically," in the CDC's words, from 166.3 pounds in 1960 to 191 pounds in 2002. Women went from 140.2 pounds in 1960 to 164.3 pounds in 2002.' [0]

Advertising is no doubt a factor in the obesity epidemic, but I'm not sure that's among the primary causes of it. It seems to me that food portion sizes have increased tremendously over the past four decades. Purveyors of food often seem to peddle the sheer size of portions as features. Additionally, foods that once might have been thought outrageously decadent, such as "coffee" covered in whipped-cream and loaded with caramel (basically a dessert in a cup), and pizza with crust infused with cheese, are now perceived as normal things to consume, quite possibly on a daily basis. My non-scientific observation is that the normalization of consumption of huge portions of calorie-dense "foods" is directly correlated with increases in obesity. Since we're not willing to de-normalize the former as far as I can tell, the emerging societal trend is to normalize the latter.

[0] "http://www.livescience.com/49-decade-study-americans-taller-...

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#102

Post by sssilver »

As a skinny immigrant who moved to USA and started growing a tummy, I have a few questions.

- Why does American food go bad so much later than back home? It shocks me how strawberries here can stay in the fridge for over a week and not go bad, same about tomatoes, or yogurt, or even bread! Back home if you don't eat your strawberries on the same day, the next day they're just gonna be mushy, and the day after they're gonna be inedible. I get so skeptical whenever I see any food that can last over a year

- The portions are just monstrous, I remember when I was new I couldn't finish a single restaurant main course, and now I sometimes catch myself that I could actually get a main course and an appetizer, and a dessert! Wouldn't restaurants make more money if they sold less food for the same price?

- The culture of "snacking" is quite interesting, I used to only eat during dinner/breakfast, now I find myself snacking in between, because snacks are so accessible and yummy and almost addictive

- Ingredients are often tasteless, so you guys add a lot of sauces to make them taste better. The sauce usually contains sugar and other stuff that doesn't help you stay fit. Why not just have food with more natural flavor? This applies to everything from blueberries to meat

- Meat sizes are completely bizarre! I've never seen such huge chicken breasts where I'm from. They're also quite bland and not soft/juicy at all. How does this even work?

- The concept of zoning is a disaster, if I wanna eat I need to sit in a car and drive where the restaurants are, and if I want booze I need to sit in a car and drive where the bars are, and if I wanna work again sit in a car and go where work is, then for sleep I need to sit in a car and drive home. Why?? Why can't I live in a residential building where first floor is restaurants and cafes, and a few blocks away is my work? You have huge residential communities where it would be foolish to even attempt to walk out of them, because the nearest grocery store is several miles away! Who came up with this, and how can this be a thing?

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#103

Post by Aloha »

krisroadruck wrote: post #29
lacampbell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? We all know the secret to not being obese. Asking the government to step in and help us just seems... childish. Are we not adults? Do we have no agency?

Do we all know? I currently weigh 270lbs (and climbing) and I * Don't consume soda or sugary drinks of any kind * Go on 3 mile walks 3-4x weekly * Have switched to soylent 100% of meals to make calorie counting dead simple * Recently cut out alcohol too And yet pounds are adding on not coming off. I've been gaining about 10-15lbs a year every year since I hit 30 after being at a stable weight of 170lbs for all of my…

Have your thyroid checked.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#104

Post by lacampbell »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #75
angry-hacker wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The secret is eat less calories than you burn. What are you talking about?

That's true in a strict sense. But how do you implement that at population scale? If it were easy to control one's weight, then we wouldn't have an obesity problem. Obesity is a public health problem, like tobacco smoking or STIs. There's no secret - avoid ling disease by not smoking, and avoid STIs by not having unprotected sex. But clearly the "it's stimple, just fix it" approach isn't effective at improving the ov…

But clearly the "it's stimple, just fix it" approach isn't effective at improving the overall health of a population.

I honestly don't care at all about the overall health of the population. I really don't. Not that I wish them any ill-will, but I can't even begin to muster up the slightest bit of care for people I don't know ruining their lives because they eat too much or smoke. It's just not even on my radar.

I realise I'm not supposed to admit this, but I also realise I'm not the only one who thinks it.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#105

Post by prostoalex »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #70
krisroadruck wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we all know? I currently weigh 270lbs (and climbing) and I * Don't consume soda or sugary drinks of any kind * Go on 3 mile walks 3-4x weekly * Have switched to soylent 100% of meals to make calorie counting dead simple * Recently cut out alcohol too And yet pounds are adding on not coming off. I've been gaining about 10-15lbs a year every year since I hit 30 after being at a stable weight of 170lbs for all of my…

Perhaps unfortunately, the human body cannot ignore physics - weight gain does ultimately come down to "you are consuming more calories than you are expending"! You're right that "eat less, fatty" is not a helpful message. That's actually the key point in these discussions - we do know how to avoid weight gain in the abstract sense (consume less than you burn), but the implementation of that is what's difficult. Diff…

> weight gain does ultimately come down to "you are consuming more calories than you are expending"

That is incorrect, but it does help sell gym memerships.

Moreover, expending more calories via exercise typically leads to weight gain, according to emprirical studies (and anecdotal look around gym's elliptical machines next time you're in one) https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/exercising-but-gai...

Fat accummulation (and disposal) are governed by insulin, whose production is triggered by sugars and other carbohydrates.

Confusingly, consuming a high-fat, low-protein and zero-carbohydrate diet will also lead to a severe decrease in calories (as it's pretty hard to overdose on olives, coconut oil or lardo), but it's nevertheless a correlation.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#106

Post by prostoalex »

revelation wrote: post #72
quotemstr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? This question touches on some very deep and controversial ideas kicking around in the current conversation. The question of whether we have an inherent "human nature", a biological substrate that informs our capabilities and behavior, touches on everything from education to tech employment. I don't want to debate the subject gener…

I'd argue it is human nature to sleep in every morning, yet a significant portion of the population defies that just fine. You can make a habit of most anything, hunger or overeating.

It's pretty hard to starve oneself and be a functioning member of the society at the same time. Any task requiring physical or mental energy will be lacking, and body will quickly resort to calorie conservation by falling into permanently fatigued state.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#107

Post by prostoalex »

quotemstr wrote: post #31
lacampbell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? We all know the secret to not being obese. Asking the government to step in and help us just seems... childish. Are we not adults? Do we have no agency?

> At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? This question touches on some very deep and controversial ideas kicking around in the current conversation. The question of whether we have an inherent "human nature", a biological substrate that informs our capabilities and behavior, touches on everything from education to tech employment. I don't want to debate the subject gener…

Why a blanket statement covering all humans and their respective nature? There are countries with high obesity rates as well as countries with low obesity rates.

Are people in low-obesity countries more resistant to such biological impulses? Do they have fewer food ads? Are they able to resist those advertisers in a more coherent fashion? Or just exhibit better willpower at national level?

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#108

Post by prostoalex »

smogcutter wrote: post #56
krisroadruck wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we all know? I currently weigh 270lbs (and climbing) and I * Don't consume soda or sugary drinks of any kind * Go on 3 mile walks 3-4x weekly * Have switched to soylent 100% of meals to make calorie counting dead simple * Recently cut out alcohol too And yet pounds are adding on not coming off. I've been gaining about 10-15lbs a year every year since I hit 30 after being at a stable weight of 170lbs for all of my…

Consider seeing a doctor or dietician (not a "nutritionist".) All else being equal if you consume fewer calories than you burn you'll lose weight, end of story. So if your weight is staying the same... sounds worth finding out if all else isn't equal. Probably also worth consulting a professional before replacing 100% of your diet with soylent.

> if you consume fewer calories than you burn you'll lose weight, end of story

You can control the input in that equation, but on the output the body is quick to go into calorie preservation state any time the balance goes negative. Lack of energy, irritability, mid-day fatigue, general weakness, mild headaches - the list goes on.

In an ideal world everyone runs marathons while sustaining themselves on water and celery sticks. In reality maintaining consistent caloric deficit while trying to remain a functional member of the society is challenging.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#109

Post by prostoalex »

lacampbell wrote: post #104
matthewmacleod wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true in a strict sense. But how do you implement that at population scale? If it were easy to control one's weight, then we wouldn't have an obesity problem. Obesity is a public health problem, like tobacco smoking or STIs. There's no secret - avoid ling disease by not smoking, and avoid STIs by not having unprotected sex. But clearly the "it's stimple, just fix it" approach isn't effective at improving the ov…

But clearly the "it's stimple, just fix it" approach isn't effective at improving the overall health of a population. I honestly don't care at all about the overall health of the population. I really don't. Not that I wish them any ill-will, but I can't even begin to muster up the slightest bit of care for people I don't know ruining their lives because they eat too much or smoke. It's just not even on my radar. I re…

You pay for their healthcare through your taxes. Every pothole on the road, unbuilt subway station and uneducated youth is a result of more tax money being redirected to the healthcare system in order to treat some smoker's lung cancer or some sweet tooth's diabetes.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#110

Post by prostoalex »

quotemstr wrote: post #83
jahewson wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet knowing that doesn't solve obesity at a societal level. How do you actually get enough people to do that? We have no idea.

Maybe we don't know exactly the right way to get lots of people to eat less, but it's certainly not making everything ultra-delicious with tons of sugar and running continuous advertisements to children for these new ultra-delicious foods.

Just a few comments above you people strongly advocate consuming fewer calories to lose weight, and, as we all know, sugar is less calorie-dense than protein or fat.

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