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Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

leginfo.legislature.ca.gov

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Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#261

Post by refurb »

acdha wrote: post #181
__realtime wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad you have that luxury, CA has some of the highest taxes anywhere and I would definitely be opposed to more.

https://taxfoundation.org/state-and-local-sales-tax-rates-20... “The five states with the highest average combined state and local sales tax rates are Tennessee (9.46 percent), Arkansas (9.30 percent), Louisiana (9.0 percent), Alabama (8.97 percent), and Washington (8.90 percent).”

That analysis ignores the income brackets.

If I have the choice of living where the state income tax hit 8% at $50K vs. %9 at $200K, I'd gladly live in the state with the "higher" state income tax rate.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#262

Post by r00fus »

CalChris wrote: post #185
pmoriarty wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vermont is one of the poorest states in the nation as well, while California's economy is one of the biggest in the world.

Vermont is 32nd in per capita GDP. Poorest would be Mississippi, dead last. California is indeed a massive economy and we're ranked 10th in per capita GDP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP_per... One point about our size. When CA does something at the state level a lot of other states follow along. Minnesota can't dictate to manufacturers but CA can.

That's GDP per capita. CA is the largest state in terms of overall GDP.

Overall population/economy size matters, not just per-capita.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#263

Post by Apocryphon »

darkstar999 wrote: post #187
antimatter wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are others entitled to his money?

You are arguing against the fundamentals of taxation. Why are others entitled to his money (for healthcare)? Because we decided that we are all good people and take care of each other.

And, it's more humane to pay taxes for social welfare, than it is to pay taxes to soldiers to protect you by shooting the needy who would hang you for not giving social welfare to them.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#264

Post by luckydata »

California is roughly the size of Italy, its economy slightly larger but essentially comparable. Italy has single payer and one of the best healthcare outcomes in the world with one of the lowest expenditure per patient in developed countries. Quality of service is uneven geographically (but it's no different anywhere else) and in generally getting care in Italy is a no hassle experience.

California, learn from Italy.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#265

Post by cdransf »

Anything that moves us beyond the gross waste and incompetence of insurance and medical billing is a good thing.

My wife and I had a few recent medical issues crop up and, despite having decent coverage, have had to deal with chasing down providers and third parties who consistently fail to bill even the most basic procedures properly.

I'd much rather pay more in taxes to have the knowledge we'd be safely covered without dealing with the headache of endless middlemen who add no value to the system.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#266

Post by numbsafari »

gnopgnip wrote: post #227
gavman wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the details regarding the budget, I didn't realize the pension budget shortfall was separate from the state budget. In that case stupid question: if CalPERS owes much more than it can afford to pay, where is the rest coming from? The LA Times article, in multiple places, talks about how much the shortage will cost the "taxpayers" (see quote below for example), how is this not related to the CA budget which…

They will either have to increase contributions or cut payments to future retirees.

As if those are the only two options... what happens when the unions plans their strikes for the week before a major event, like transit workers before the DNC here in Philly?

Also, when tax-free pension contributions go up and taxable payments to future retirees go down... then taxes collected also goes down...

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#267

Post by Apocryphon »

stvswn wrote: post #114
darkstar999 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a mid-30s person who earns a decent tech salary ... you can afford it. Moreso that others. You _are_ the wealth.

I'm in my 30s as well -- I make a great tech salary and own small house that cost me a ton to buy. I pay a lot in taxes. I support a family of four off of my salary. At the end of the day we basically live the same lifestyle that I grew up with, and my dad was a police officer, my mom a public high school teacher. Our house is smaller than the one I grew up with, the local public schools are about the same quality. I…

That's fine, you can join the exodus of Californians in Austin or Boulder or Portland who didn't own real estate but couldn't afford to live here either.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#268

Post by luckydata »

maxerickson wrote: post #220
toomuchtodo wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would love a counter opinion. Every other first world country? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_univers...

Several of those countries implement universal coverage using a private insurance model.

All the best systems are single payer. Italy, France, Spain, the UK. The countries with private insurance like Germany are middle of the pack. Clearly single payer is the superior option.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#269

Post by SilasX »

chimeracoder wrote: post #246
SilasX wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And (per previous discussion [1]) that doesn't explain it. If there is still excess demand for MD degrees, then there is still room for potential MDs to borrow any shortfall that residency subsidies won't cover. The argument is like saying that Hamilton showings are limited by how much the government will pay in subsidies for the tickets. No. The demand is enough to cover expansion. And even if it weren't there's sti…

> If there is still excess demand for MD degrees, then there is still room for potential MDs to borrow any shortfall that residency subsidies won't cover. Because the amount of loan debt physicians have to take on is already massive, and very few want to increase that by an additional $112,000 (which is the amount Medicare provides). There are some, but empirically, not many. The term of that loan is comparable to ma…

>Because the amount of loan debt physicians have to take on is already massive, and very few would want to increase that by an additional $112,000 (which is the amount Medicare provides).

Sure, you think it's expensive, but the demand is still there, people are willing to work for (net of costs) less than they currently are. That supports the claim that the service is priced above the market clearing level. (Edit: and they wouldn't be increasing debt by that full $112k; they could simply provide 80% of the existing subsidy per slot instead of the current 100%.)

>Broadway ticket prices are a really bad analogy, because prices are intentionally sold below market-clearing rate for a whole slew of reasons that aren't directly comparable to the medical profession.

No, that makes it a better analogy, because it's a case of good sold below it's market clearing price but which has excess demand capable of paying a (much) higher MCP, and where it's more obvious that the bottleneck isn't (and can't be) insufficient subsidies.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#270

Post by refurb »

mahyarm wrote: post #224
stvswn wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're assuming that there won't be over-the-top optional healthcare that we'd all (as in, people w/ good insurance at the moment) have to buy in order to meet the same quality we currently have.

Just going by my experience in Canada, most people don't buy too much extra. You still have to get dental & vision although, but the costs for that are minor. Many don't buy any health insurance at all.

Canadians are also used to a very different level of healthcare. If you can convince a vast chunk of Americans to wait 12+ months for a joint replacement, then yes it could work.
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