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Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

leginfo.legislature.ca.gov

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Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#231

Post by refurb »

enraged_camel wrote: post #169
jbhatab wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the only thing I'm confused about. Do we have examples of the government running a service better than the private sector? I'm not 100% on this, but it seems all of the best aspects of American services come from competition and letting capitalism thrive. Would love a counter opinion.

You would do well to start questioning the idea that the private sector does anything "better". After all, it was them that gave us Enron, Deepwater Horizon, and most recently, the subprime mortgage crisis, which brought the entire world economy to its knees. Those are only a few examples that spring to mind. In addition, comparing the government with the private sector is pretty silly. They have different goals. Pri…

After all, it was them that gave us Enron, Deepwater Horizon, and most recently, the subprime mortgage crisis, which brought the entire world economy to its knees.

That's a pretty poor argument if you line it up against gov't waste, incompetence and corruption.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#232

Post by stale2002 »

nickff wrote: post #208

The problems with your last argument are that almost nobody is actually a utilitarian, and utilitarianism is wrong.[1][2][3] edit: full disclosure; I am an ethical intuitionist.[4] [1] http://degreesofclarity.com/writing/utilitarianism/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism#Criticisms [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_intuitionism

The Trolley problem isn't really an example of utilitarianism being wrong. Quite the opposite, I use that example to convince people of how awesome Utilitarianism is, not as a contradiction.

What, would you chose to kill 5 people, instead of one?

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#233

Post by toomuchtodo »

maxerickson wrote: post #220
toomuchtodo wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would love a counter opinion. Every other first world country? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_univers...

Several of those countries implement universal coverage using a private insurance model.

In almost all European countries, its provided by the government and funded by taxation. My point stands.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#234

Post by ThomPete »

michaelchisari wrote: post #136
ThomPete wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No i am saying that its not going to change anything and that longer term it changes how people think of risk.

I find that a bold assertion.

Yeah well i have tried both.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#235

Post by TheOsiris »

df3 wrote: post #5

A well-executed single-payer system would make California even more attractive for entrepreneurship and increase labor mobility for everyone. Life would be much easier if we could start companies or switch jobs without worrying about healthcare.

I don't think anyone disagrees that single payer requires higher taxes than we currently pay. so given that, you're trying to tell me that a state with the highest taxes (much much higher than #2) in the nation, with the lowest housing affordability will attract more entrepreneurs than before?

why? because the young and invincible will be choose cheaper healthcare over being able to live comfortably? I highly doubt it. this has nothing to do with whether or not single payer is a good idea. I just did the idea that people will choose CA over cheaper states just for that reason

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#236

Post by fishywang »

Assuming this is implemented, how does it work in case of Californians traveling in other states/countries? Will it work like the current out-of-network case, that the government reimburse you some percentage, with some restrictions (ER only, for example)? Or will the Californians need to buy a separated insurance before they travel?

How does this work for single-payer countries, like Canada?

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#237

Post by AtheistOfFail »

chimeracoder wrote: post #184
neltnerb wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head, and certainly some are up for debate. But consider how well these systems worked prior to government intervention. You may think medicare, for instance, is run horribly -- but I'm pretty confident that seniors are far happier with it than they were pawning off their possessions to get medical treatment prior to it being created. - Medicaid - Medicare - The USPS (which, let's be honest, is frea…

> You may think medicare, for instance, is run horribly -- but I'm pretty confident that seniors are far happier with it than they were pawning off their possessions to get medical treatment prior to it being created. Sure, but empirically, seniors are far happier with privatized Medicare plans than they are with publicly-administered Medicare plans. Original Medicare has the lowest satisfaction rates of all major Me…

> Medicaid is run at the state level, but the same applies there as well - privately managed Medicaid plans are gaining popularity because they deliver better medical results at lower prices.

This is disputable. Private companies are also motivated by greed which means they'll cut corners to save penies.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#238

Post by refurb »

rdmcfee wrote: post #72

A single payer system is a step in the right direction, however, there are deeper issues with the American healthcare system. The unit cost of healthcare is so much higher than in other developed countries. In British Columbia, physicians bill at total of around $31 CAD ($23 USD) for a standard office visit. They pay all their overhead out of this fee. Typically doctors keep 65% of their billings and the offices take…

Take a close look at physician salaries in US vs. Canada.

If you're going to cut costs, you're going to have to convince physicians to take a pay cut.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#239

Post by gnopgnip »

trishume wrote: post #108
TheSageMage wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very new to the single-payer idea, but Vermont rates 49th for population in the US, California ranks 1st. I thought one of the strengths of a single-payer system was to leverage the power of large numbers to help drive costs down. Would this not make it more viable?

We even know California's population is large enough to support its own single-payer system since Canada has a slightly smaller population and a single payer system. The trick is whether the transition to a single payer system is feasible. Both in terms of taxes, and existing organizations and incentives.

Australia did it. It won't happen overnight, but the planning has to start somewhere.

Re: Healthy California Act: proposal to make findings about single-payer healthcare

#240

Post by bbcbasic »

antimatter wrote: post #109
darkstar999 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a mid-30s person who earns a decent tech salary ... you can afford it. Moreso that others. You _are_ the wealth.

Why are others entitled to his money?

He is arguing that they are not entitled to his money, but others should be entitled to others (home owners) money. Or as Pink Floyd might say "share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie"
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