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As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

latimes.com

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Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#81

Post by matthewmacleod »

lacampbell wrote: post #36
minikites wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not childish, it's how a society works. It's the same concept behind seatbelt laws. Not wearing a seatbelt "should" be an individual choice but individuals not wearing a seatbelt in aggregate is a net negative for society so we legislate their use.

I think wearing a seatbelt is a great idea, and if I'll refuse to drive a car unless all my passengers are wearing their seatbelt first. My partner is from a country where it's not enforced at all, and I have insisted she always wear a seat-belt when I noticed she didn't wear them routinely. I personally rarely drink alcohol, don't smoke, take drugs etc etc. I still don't think any of the above should be forbidden. I…

Bear in mind that it's not a binary choice - "total free-for-all" versus "ban it". We can implement public health measures that strongly discourage harmful activities, or offer mitigation, without banning them.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#82

Post by lacampbell »

krisroadruck wrote: post #29
lacampbell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? We all know the secret to not being obese. Asking the government to step in and help us just seems... childish. Are we not adults? Do we have no agency?

Do we all know? I currently weigh 270lbs (and climbing) and I * Don't consume soda or sugary drinks of any kind * Go on 3 mile walks 3-4x weekly * Have switched to soylent 100% of meals to make calorie counting dead simple * Recently cut out alcohol too And yet pounds are adding on not coming off. I've been gaining about 10-15lbs a year every year since I hit 30 after being at a stable weight of 170lbs for all of my…

I'd honestly experiment with fasting and skipping meals. I think you're just conditioned to eat way too many calories.

A day fast is really not that bad IMO. I used to do them every sunday and found it a really effective tool to get from "obese" to "overweight" (BMI). Got much less effective as I approached "normal" though.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#83

Post by quotemstr »

jahewson wrote: post #61
angry-hacker wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The secret is eat less calories than you burn. What are you talking about?

And yet knowing that doesn't solve obesity at a societal level. How do you actually get enough people to do that? We have no idea.

Maybe we don't know exactly the right way to get lots of people to eat less, but it's certainly not making everything ultra-delicious with tons of sugar and running continuous advertisements to children for these new ultra-delicious foods.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#84

Post by dageshi »

I think most of the comments in this thread miss out the fundamental issue, which is bad food not only tastes better than "good food" it also often is cheaper and crucially is more convenient.

Convenient food, that tastes good but is bad for you will beat out inconvenient food that tastes "ok" and is healthy for you.

For a lot of people cooking is just more work and if they've got the choice and the money they'll order take out or buy pre-made ready meals.

Moaning about sugar and advertising is just tinkering around the edges, to me if you want to solve this problem you've got to make eating healthy as convenient if not more convenient as eating badly.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#85

Post by revelation »

Fricken wrote: post #43
revelation wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand, the equation doesn't change at all.

When your body is breaking down simple carbohydrates, it causes your blood sugar levels to spike, and during this period you're packing away more fat than you would otherwise. Combined with a sedentary lifestyle it's really bad. It does matter where you're getting your calories from. This is why poor people have greater obesity problems than the rest. Potato Chips, white bread, pasta, and of course sugar feature prom…

None of that matters, it's like jitter on a clock line. The timespans we are talking (months), these differences vanish.

I'm sure there are tons of intricacies in how metabolism works, but glycogen storage in a human is about 2000 kJ. Once your deficit surpasses that (and we'll happily allow a multiple to account for any error here), your body will either consume fat or you'll experience actual low blood sugar and drop dead.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#86

Post by trillf0rd »

Neliquat wrote: post #4

Until this is treated like the public epidemic it is, and promote education, this will only get worse. Calories in - calories out = fat accumulation. It is literally that simple.

Calorie balance certainly matters but it is not that simple. Most leading health research institutions believe dietary quality plays a major part in health and weight management. Certain foods are associated with patterns of overeating. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/best-diet-quali...

The average American diet has changed dramatically in the last century with the growth of the restaurant and food processing industry. Exercise participation has actually increased substantially in the last 20 years (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2015/057.pdf) in the same time period obesity has soared.

Energy balance being responsible for weight gain is too readily used by the food processing industry in an effort to shift away blame for this epidemic.

A few instances: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/12/obesity-exercise... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/good-news-pepsicos-indra-nooyi-s... http://blogs.plos.org/speakingofmedicine/2012/07/05/is-obesi... https://therussells.crossfit.com/2015/09/23/transparency-coc...

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#87

Post by quotemstr »

soneca wrote: post #41
quotemstr wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct about there being a genetic component to obesity. Unfortunately, it's also the case that it is just "eating less" --- physics has no special case for 21st century humans. The way to square this circle, and what's particularly difficult for people in this society, is to accept that that there is a genetic component to this behavioral issue. We'd prefer very much going around believing that behavior is s…

What you eat make harder or easier to eat less. It is not just genetics and it is not just self control. If you eat more fat and no carbs is much easier to eat less calories in total.

But carbs are delicious. That's a huge problem. Seriously. You can't just ignore how delicious carbs are if you want to actually change behavior.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#88

Post by Jach »

minikites wrote: post #25
lacampbell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? We all know the secret to not being obese. Asking the government to step in and help us just seems... childish. Are we not adults? Do we have no agency?

It's not childish, it's how a society works. It's the same concept behind seatbelt laws. Not wearing a seatbelt "should" be an individual choice but individuals not wearing a seatbelt in aggregate is a net negative for society so we legislate their use.

> It's not childish, it's how a nanny-state works.

FTFY.

Different people accept different levels of control over their lives, and feel they have different levels of control over their own lives. This can even change over one's life. And sometimes it's not a feeling but a much more objective fact. I know people whose interests would be better served if someone else made all their financial decisions because they have a long pattern of poor decision making regardless of the monetary amount. I don't feel I should force such a thing on those people when they don't want it, but often it's possible for an in-between solution they find agreeable enough of removing some autonomy but not all. This delicate balance is best done as locally as possible.

It's all very variable. I strongly disagree with a dichotomy I see often propped up of "we need the full force of the federal government in our daily lives" against "move to Somalia if you don't like it". A better approach is federalism. In the US at least there's been "enough" federalism to keep most larger groups of different people happy enough (even now I know I can move to a different state and be free of some of what I dislike about my current state) but the trend is less state decision and more federal control. Extending this to the city level for large cities works fine too. I don't care if Seattle wants to enact some nanny law, maybe the people of Seattle want that and indeed will have better lives because of it, but I don't care because I don't live there nor have to live there. Even if Washington State, where I do live, does something I hate, I can move. When it's the whole US that has a law that I really find unbearably intrusive, things suddenly become a lot more challenging because the cost of exit is much higher. When you can't really do anything about it you either become unhappy or rely on stoicism or whatever to get you through, it would be better though if the negative factor wasn't even there to begin with.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#89

Post by Merad »

krisroadruck wrote: post #29
lacampbell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? We all know the secret to not being obese. Asking the government to step in and help us just seems... childish. Are we not adults? Do we have no agency?

Do we all know? I currently weigh 270lbs (and climbing) and I * Don't consume soda or sugary drinks of any kind * Go on 3 mile walks 3-4x weekly * Have switched to soylent 100% of meals to make calorie counting dead simple * Recently cut out alcohol too And yet pounds are adding on not coming off. I've been gaining about 10-15lbs a year every year since I hit 30 after being at a stable weight of 170lbs for all of my…

I'll be the last to say that weight management is easy - I've fought the battle my whole life - but if you eat less calories than your body burns, you will lose weight. The hard part is doing it consistently over the long run. Things I would ask, are (I'm not necessarily asking you to answer, just think about the answers):

* Are you actually tracking your calories with something like MyFitnessPal? What's your calorie intake?

* Are you tracking honestly? Especially if/when you have a bad day, or cheat day, or whatever you want to call it.

* Are you tracking accurately? If you aren't using a scale or measuring cup, the answer is probably no. Most people severely underestimate the size of their portions.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#90

Post by Jach »

Neliquat wrote: post #4

Until this is treated like the public epidemic it is, and promote education, this will only get worse. Calories in - calories out = fat accumulation. It is literally that simple.

∇ F = J/(c є0)

It's literally just that simple too.

Unfortunately this isn't good advice for a fat person trying to lose weight. Even a very low IQ fat person understands that if they eat less and move more they'll lose weight. Nor is it particularly good advice for trying to craft a top-down policy unless the intention is to force people to eat a certain amount only and burn a minimum amount of energy.

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