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As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

latimes.com

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Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#71

Post by shakil »

lacampbell wrote: post #17
quotemstr wrote: post #8

Is it really in the best interest of society to allow food makers to advertise superstimuli-level [1] food products that we know in aggregate make is less happy and likely to die earlier? Why? We regulate all sorts of substances that we know are harmful when ingested. We shouldn't make exceptions for things that happen to be called food. Even if we don't want to enact anything as drastic as a "soda tax" or a ban on r…

At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? We all know the secret to not being obese. Asking the government to step in and help us just seems... childish. Are we not adults? Do we have no agency?

I guess we have learnt enough to know you cannot blame people for their sexuality, or their inability to come out of poverty without external help, etc. But see a fat person and its open season to make all kinds of value judgements without knowing the root cause of their obesity. Partly its because there's this huge "health" industry that encourages the blame game by pushing out messages like if you were to just try a little harder, you would be lean and fit too. But thats just BS, people should educate themselves and try to understand the near impossibility of losing weight and keeping it off on a long term sustained basis.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#72

Post by revelation »

quotemstr wrote: post #31
lacampbell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? We all know the secret to not being obese. Asking the government to step in and help us just seems... childish. Are we not adults? Do we have no agency?

> At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? This question touches on some very deep and controversial ideas kicking around in the current conversation. The question of whether we have an inherent "human nature", a biological substrate that informs our capabilities and behavior, touches on everything from education to tech employment. I don't want to debate the subject gener…

I'd argue it is human nature to sleep in every morning, yet a significant portion of the population defies that just fine. You can make a habit of most anything, hunger or overeating.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#73

Post by ramchip »

krisroadruck wrote: post #29
lacampbell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? We all know the secret to not being obese. Asking the government to step in and help us just seems... childish. Are we not adults? Do we have no agency?

Do we all know? I currently weigh 270lbs (and climbing) and I * Don't consume soda or sugary drinks of any kind * Go on 3 mile walks 3-4x weekly * Have switched to soylent 100% of meals to make calorie counting dead simple * Recently cut out alcohol too And yet pounds are adding on not coming off. I've been gaining about 10-15lbs a year every year since I hit 30 after being at a stable weight of 170lbs for all of my…

Either you need to tweak your calorie limit down (it's above what your body needs for maintenance, which varies from person to person), or you're forgetting to count some items.

It may be hard to limit calories without feeling hungry on a mostly soylent diet. Salad and veggies make it easier because they're low on calories, but still have a lot of bulk which helps stave off hunger.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#74

Post by tchock23 »

angry-hacker wrote: post #45
jahewson wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think as a society it is pretty clear that we do not know the secret to not being obese. I can't count how many times a day I am bombarded with messages telling me to eat junk food, that it's fine, it's fun. People do not live in a vacuum and can't be judged too harshly for choosing the options that society has worked very hard to place in front of them and promote. It's simple psychology that when faced with sizes…

The secret is eat less calories than you burn. What are you talking about?

As the article notes, eating less than you burn is effective for a while until the body works to get back up to a previous set point to maintain homeostasis.

An excellent book on this topic is The Obesity Code by Dr Jason Fung

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#75

Post by matthewmacleod »

angry-hacker wrote: post #45
jahewson wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think as a society it is pretty clear that we do not know the secret to not being obese. I can't count how many times a day I am bombarded with messages telling me to eat junk food, that it's fine, it's fun. People do not live in a vacuum and can't be judged too harshly for choosing the options that society has worked very hard to place in front of them and promote. It's simple psychology that when faced with sizes…

The secret is eat less calories than you burn. What are you talking about?

That's true in a strict sense. But how do you implement that at population scale? If it were easy to control one's weight, then we wouldn't have an obesity problem.

Obesity is a public health problem, like tobacco smoking or STIs. There's no secret - avoid ling disease by not smoking, and avoid STIs by not having unprotected sex. But clearly the "it's stimple, just fix it" approach isn't effective at improving the overall health of a population.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#76

Post by xg15 »

lacampbell wrote: post #36
minikites wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not childish, it's how a society works. It's the same concept behind seatbelt laws. Not wearing a seatbelt "should" be an individual choice but individuals not wearing a seatbelt in aggregate is a net negative for society so we legislate their use.

I think wearing a seatbelt is a great idea, and if I'll refuse to drive a car unless all my passengers are wearing their seatbelt first. My partner is from a country where it's not enforced at all, and I have insisted she always wear a seat-belt when I noticed she didn't wear them routinely. I personally rarely drink alcohol, don't smoke, take drugs etc etc. I still don't think any of the above should be forbidden. I…

You can view it from the other side, though. if the market is skewed in such a way that most food readily available contains e.g. unnecessary amounts of sugar and you need specific skills, knowledge and mental resolve (not to mention money) to not eat unhealthy food, I believe a bit influence to re-balance things is justified.

Consumer-choice and personal responsibility is a nice thing as long as that choice isn't systematically undermined by market forces.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#77

Post by smogcutter »

lacampbell wrote: post #17
quotemstr wrote: post #8

Is it really in the best interest of society to allow food makers to advertise superstimuli-level [1] food products that we know in aggregate make is less happy and likely to die earlier? Why? We regulate all sorts of substances that we know are harmful when ingested. We shouldn't make exceptions for things that happen to be called food. Even if we don't want to enact anything as drastic as a "soda tax" or a ban on r…

At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? We all know the secret to not being obese. Asking the government to step in and help us just seems... childish. Are we not adults? Do we have no agency?

Either tremendous numbers of people simultaneously and coincidentally find themselves sapped of will and personal responsibility... or there's something systemic at work.

So the question isn't what happened to personal responsibility. It's why exercising that responsibility is apparently so much more difficult than in the past. Address that, and you'll find the "agency" problem largely solves itself.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#78

Post by lacampbell »

montecarl wrote: post #58
lacampbell wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the things you really have to accept if you want to lose weight - yes you will have to eat less, and yes you will feel hungry a lot.

I do not want to sound like I am arguing with you for the sake of arguing, but I have lost weight and several of my friends and family have lost weight without feeling hungry by switching to a low carb (ketogenic) diet. It was so crazy to eat mostly fatty food and green vegetables and lose weight very quickly. One major thing I noticed was how much longer I was able to go without eating on this diet without feeling h…

I didn't take it as arguing for the sake of arguing at all. I know a lot of people who really do well with low carbs - and I'm slightly jealous.

I've tried before, but I feel like complete garbage. I'm told it goes away, but I don't really have days to waste feeling dizzy trying out something that may or not work for me.

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#79

Post by jahewson »

rglover wrote: post #48
BadassFractal wrote: post #13

I haven't really paid attention to men's physiques, but there's a stark difference between the silhouettes of women in many cities of Europe and those in even the most "superficial" US states such as California. I know the PC police will eat me for lunch for saying this, but the dating pool, at least in the 20s and 30s range, shrinks considerably in the US for anybody used to European body image standards. Whatever's…

No, it's the individual's fault. I was severely overweight a year ago and lost 80lb doing nothing other than eating healthy, exercising, and...being patient. The deferment of responsibility and lack of self-control is the problem. Of course, companies–and more specifically, their marketing teams/firms–know people are weak-minded and as a result, can more or less control people's habits (read: greed outweighs public c…

If "people are weak minded" then how is it their "fault"? You can't have it both ways.

Also have you considered that you might have motivation and willpower far above average? Not to mention the time, money, level of education and understanding necessary to change your diet.

Ultimately you are one single data point - do you believe that everybody can do all the things you can do just as well as you? No. Why should diet be any different?

Re: As obesity keeps rising, more Americans are just giving up

#80

Post by buzzybee »

krisroadruck wrote: post #29
lacampbell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point do people take responsibility for their own bodies and their own lives? We all know the secret to not being obese. Asking the government to step in and help us just seems... childish. Are we not adults? Do we have no agency?

Do we all know? I currently weigh 270lbs (and climbing) and I * Don't consume soda or sugary drinks of any kind * Go on 3 mile walks 3-4x weekly * Have switched to soylent 100% of meals to make calorie counting dead simple * Recently cut out alcohol too And yet pounds are adding on not coming off. I've been gaining about 10-15lbs a year every year since I hit 30 after being at a stable weight of 170lbs for all of my…

It could be a number of things:

* Your gut biome might need a "reset". Sometimes people experience extended weight gain after antibiotics because they ended up with a different, less effective biome. (Soylent might also contribute to this issue.)

* Another health issue changed your digestive process

* You're losing muscle mass, making it easier to gain fat

* You're sleeping more poorly or are more stressed

Calorie counting really isn't sufficient to know what's going on with weight changes. The factors are numerous.

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