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The possibility of remaking the financial system with the blockchain

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Re: The possibility of remaking the financial system with the blockchain

#31

Post by libertymcateer »

graphememes wrote: post #26
BuuQu9hu wrote: post #10

First we need to figure out smart contracts and educate folks on how capability security works.

What portions of Smart Contracts is there left to figure out?

Literally all of the important stuff.

In a recent contract I worked on the definition of "material adverse effect" took up a page of single spaced 12 point times new roman text and had about two dozen other definitions involved. Each one of those terms, at its root, comes down to a judgment call that is subject to disagreement among reasonable people. This is why we have trials.

Re: The possibility of remaking the financial system with the blockchain

#32

Post by sanswork »

geodel wrote: post #25
libertymcateer wrote: post #12

I do not buy this for a minute and to be fair the headline misrepresents the much more sober tone of the actual article, to the authors' credit. I am not a fan of cryptocurrency in general (that is another argument for another day) so I am just going to focus on one claim regarding law firms: the rise of the smart contract. I do not believe it is a realistic expectation, and here is why: The vast majority of contract…

All excellent points. I wonder if it fall in some 80/20 rule. 80% contracts may be bog standard and ripe for this kind of automation while remaining will get attention of staff. I am thinking of contracts for jobs, lease, repair works etc.

Contracts like that are almost all available as cheap templates. Smart contracts won't even solve these though. How does a smart contract solve the problem of mold in an apartment where the tenant claims it was existing and the landlord claims it was due to tenant misuse?

Re: The possibility of remaking the financial system with the blockchain

#33

Post by libertymcateer »

sanswork wrote: post #32
geodel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All excellent points. I wonder if it fall in some 80/20 rule. 80% contracts may be bog standard and ripe for this kind of automation while remaining will get attention of staff. I am thinking of contracts for jobs, lease, repair works etc.

Contracts like that are almost all available as cheap templates. Smart contracts won't even solve these though. How does a smart contract solve the problem of mold in an apartment where the tenant claims it was existing and the landlord claims it was due to tenant misuse?

This is precisely the issue. Excellent example.

Re: The possibility of remaking the financial system with the blockchain

#34

Post by sanswork »

asciimo wrote: post #28
sanswork wrote: post #8

Every time I see someone claiming that no one thought the internet would succeed by pointing out that newsweek article I wonder if they are even old enough to remember the mid 90s. I get that it would be regional but in the Toronto area in the mid-90s everyone I knew wanted to try the web and email it was often just expensive or a pain in the ass to do so. Having scanned through the article they basically point out w…

I agree that there are plenty of differences between the technologies. But the investment comparison in the article seems accurate; a public Internet can be traced back before the 80s, and "early development" to the 60s. A public blockchain opened in 2009. Wasn't VC investment in the former comparatively late?

There were BBSs earlier and if you were lucky you worked for a company or university with access but commercial internet access and usage was restricted before the early 90s. So comparing VC to before that point isn't accurate it also doesn't take into account how the internet itself has accelerated the distribution of ideas and tech dramatically.

Re: The possibility of remaking the financial system with the blockchain

#35

Post by Consultant32452 »

elastic_church wrote: post #20
FrankenPC wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't heard of Law 2.0. The slow rise to financial dominance is coming to an end for the big Amlaw firms. A disruption event is on the horizon where lawyers will need to be replaced with technology/law expert hybrids who will program the legal systems which will act autonomously with as little intervention as possible. Hands on law will eventually become a thing of the past. I've been working in legal for 25 ye…

Where is this happening As an individual if I want a lawyer for anything right now, I am most likely going to wind up with a complete technophobe who is barely computer literate enough to copy and paste the boilerplate legal document they make for me.

For 99% of the things I want a lawyer to do right now I'll fill out a form on LegalZoom and never see a human. Someone wrote a chatbot that helps people in NYC walk through the process of fighting their traffic citations. Automation is coming for sure.

Re: The possibility of remaking the financial system with the blockchain

#36

Post by Hermel »

andrewla wrote: post #30
libertymcateer wrote: post #12

I do not buy this for a minute and to be fair the headline misrepresents the much more sober tone of the actual article, to the authors' credit. I am not a fan of cryptocurrency in general (that is another argument for another day) so I am just going to focus on one claim regarding law firms: the rise of the smart contract. I do not believe it is a realistic expectation, and here is why: The vast majority of contract…

I am a big fan of cryptocurrency, but completely agree with you about smart contracts. From a legal perspective, as you point out, they are ridiculous, because they can't encode legally "interesting" contracts. Many people seem to think that smart contracts can be used to replace more economic-oriented contacts, like "paying dividends to shareholders". Unfortunately here they are also useless -- the only contracts yo…

If you read the following excellent comment by Matt Levine, you might recognise that there is huge potential in moving dividend payments and other standard transactions to the blockchain: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-02-17/dole-food...

Re: The possibility of remaking the financial system with the blockchain

#37

Post by kingnothing »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #13
InternetUser wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think that the peer-to-peer sharing of news and other online content has had a significant effect on politics, business, and society?

Can you elaborate on what you mean by peer-to-peer . What protocols are people using on the internet that are peer-to-peer?

I assume he's referring to getting news from your peers on Facebook, Twitter, etc. instead of watching the news at 7pm every day.

Re: The possibility of remaking the financial system with the blockchain

#38

Post by clamprecht »

libertymcateer wrote: post #12

I do not buy this for a minute and to be fair the headline misrepresents the much more sober tone of the actual article, to the authors' credit. I am not a fan of cryptocurrency in general (that is another argument for another day) so I am just going to focus on one claim regarding law firms: the rise of the smart contract. I do not believe it is a realistic expectation, and here is why: The vast majority of contract…

Here's the way I see it. Part of interpreting a contract is deciding whether certain facts are true or not. This part seems hardest for a computer to do (for now), so this part can still be delegated to humans. In the law these are called "questions of fact". On the other hand, "questions of law" are the part that I think can be executed by a smart contract (once the facts are input).

You're right that many contracts are not well specified. These are "bugs" in contracts. People will have to write bug-free smart contracts. There will be a library of contract templates (github-style). This stuff already exists with contracts - lawyers have software that spit out standard forms and fills in the name of their party. And we pay them $500/hour to do it.

Re: The possibility of remaking the financial system with the blockchain

#39

Post by ABCLAW »

FrankenPC wrote: post #15
libertymcateer wrote: post #12

I do not buy this for a minute and to be fair the headline misrepresents the much more sober tone of the actual article, to the authors' credit. I am not a fan of cryptocurrency in general (that is another argument for another day) so I am just going to focus on one claim regarding law firms: the rise of the smart contract. I do not believe it is a realistic expectation, and here is why: The vast majority of contract…

You haven't heard of Law 2.0. The slow rise to financial dominance is coming to an end for the big Amlaw firms. A disruption event is on the horizon where lawyers will need to be replaced with technology/law expert hybrids who will program the legal systems which will act autonomously with as little intervention as possible. Hands on law will eventually become a thing of the past. I've been working in legal for 25 ye…

I believe every lawyer has seen the gutting of the newly called associate class - we all know what automation is doing.

While databaseing case facts, contracts, documents, laws, jurisprudence, etc. has escalated in recent years, fundamentally a law firm is not providing those as key services - they are ancillary profit centers. One hires a contract manager to manage contracts, not a top-flight firm.

The value proposition of a law practice is dependable competence in a wide spectrum of related sub-fields. As those profit centers are commoditized and margins fall, firms will merely shift pricing, technology and talent sourcing strategy, not fall apart, because in many cases, the amount of people with competence in those fields is countably limited. Most top flight firms will be fairly straightforward with you if you ask: they don't compete on price. They compete for clients on quality of service and prestige.

The fantasy that law will act autonomously with little intervention is charming and sensible to non-practitioners. The rules are the rules, after all, what could go possibly go wrong? In practice, the answer is often 'everything'.

Re: The possibility of remaking the financial system with the blockchain

#40

Post by libertymcateer »

ABCLAW wrote: post #39
FrankenPC wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't heard of Law 2.0. The slow rise to financial dominance is coming to an end for the big Amlaw firms. A disruption event is on the horizon where lawyers will need to be replaced with technology/law expert hybrids who will program the legal systems which will act autonomously with as little intervention as possible. Hands on law will eventually become a thing of the past. I've been working in legal for 25 ye…

I believe every lawyer has seen the gutting of the newly called associate class - we all know what automation is doing. While databaseing case facts, contracts, documents, laws, jurisprudence, etc. has escalated in recent years, fundamentally a law firm is not providing those as key services - they are ancillary profit centers. One hires a contract manager to manage contracts, not a top-flight firm. The value proposi…

I agree.

Also, saying that I haven't heard of Law 2.0 is like asserting a particular developer hasn't heard of Web 2.0. It's... a strange accusation, to say the least. And one that distinguishes you as an outsider.

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