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Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

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Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#381

Post by duderific »

unsigner wrote: post #173

I'm significantly worse in my job than what I remember from before I had kids. What I miss most was the "deep thinking" mode that I used to get into, when you think about a problem for days on end, and solutions and ideas start popping in your head while you're in the proverbial shower. This rarely happens to me nowadays - the life I have outside of work scrubs my mind clean like a metal brush the second I step into…

> I'm significantly worse in my job than what I remember from before I had kids.

I'm not sure if I'm significantly worse in my job since I've had kids (I have a two and a half year old boy), but what I'm not able to do is keep up with "the kids" who get to work at 8:30 AM and leave at 7:00 PM, because they're young and single and no one is waiting at home for them. I try to leave at 5:45 PM so I can get home in time to help out with dinner and putting him to bed.

So many folks I work with get home after their kids go to bed. I just don't want to miss all that time with my son. It's definitely affecting how I'm perceived at work, because I'm seen as not as "dedicated" as the folks who stay at work till all hours and are online late at night at home. It's constantly striking a balance between the demands at home and the demands at work.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#382

Post by drvdevd »

daxfohl wrote: post #311

All the responses here indicate the same "la dee da having kids is so wonderful that you don't even miss the other stuff." Fuck that. I have kids and I totally miss being able to stay up all night working on stuff and exploring new technologies, feeling like the world is going on without me. Don't get me wrong, I'm a passable dad, spend as much time with kids as possible, take them out to libraries and parks and try…

I'm sure you're not the only one. As a soon-to-be Dad and long time single hacker late night guy, I've been wondering myself if I'll feel the same way.

But then I remember the day jobs I've had where I was thinking the same things on the clock: lamenting what I'm not working on and will probably never accomplish. Especially including the programming and/or devops jobs.

I've got to say I can't point to a single job (even working in a restaurant as a dish washer, and on a ranch) where I couldn't have found any way to constantly increase my knowlede even by some small ammount while working. It's even more challenging to me working remotely on gigs that are utterly boring, because I'm tempted to stray out into left field and the Internet makes that so easy of course.

But those boring gigs carry value that I can find if I look for it, and that I can build upon. Every second, they offer opportunities for exploring a new problem domain - for learning something new. And my client gets a great ROI if I do that. We both win.

And with Kids, is it not a good thing to tell them about what you're working on? To show enthusiasm for your work? You say you try to teach your kids things - I've heard it said the best way to learn something is by teaching it, right?

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#383

Post by johnwheeler »

I'm 38 with three kids: 2 year old twins and a 5 year old. During that time, I've done a lot on my own, and I feel I've had more than enough time to accomplish more.

I've taught myself Swift and Cocoa:

https://github.com/johnwheeler/CocoaProgramming

released open source frameworks:

https://github.com/johnwheeler/flask-ask

https://github.com/johnwheeler/flask-live-starter

and have had plenty of time to pursue interesting side projects:

https://oldgeekjobs.com

https://alexatutorial.com

I also spend plenty of meaningful time with my kids reading them books, going to the park, playing with toys, and day dreaming. Stop watching T.V., playing video games, and making BS excuses for being distracted from life.

It's not a tradeoff--you don't have to choose one over the other. _No one_ is so busy they don't have a few hours of down time a week. It's how you choose to spend it.

Incidentally for myself, with kids, a full workload, and pursuit of projects that interest me, I still find myself with too much time to know what to do with and squander a good portion of it.

The best thing you can do for your kids is teach by example. If you spend all your free time with them and grow up bitter that you didn't accomplish what you wish you would have, you're creating a shitty template for them mold themselves against. Let them watch you reading books, building things, crashing and burning, and chasing your dreams instead.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#384

Post by WalterSear »

skrebbel wrote: post #98

This thread is slowly filling up with stories of enthusiastic workaholic parents who are disciplined and fit enough to take every single 15 minute break to sit down and get some code out. If you're able to code up a blog engine with one hand while holding your baby in the other, I envy you. I wish I could muster up the energy and discipline to do something like that. But to other readers: for many people this is not…

IMHO, this thread is slowly filling up with stories of enthusiastic workaholic parents making wildly optimistic claims regarding how productive they are.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#385

Post by tehwalrus »

pmarreck wrote: post #286
shakna wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter just turned five months. Her favorite game at the moment is to press all the buttons on my keyboard. Whether or not a computer is remotely nearby. I might not have much time to bang away on code, but seeing her proud of grabbing and biting a book, is much more exciting.

> but seeing her proud of grabbing and biting a book, is much more exciting. this is exactly the sort of common statement from parents that is completely impenetrably unfathomable by non-parents and may even frighten the latter a bit as to how something so superficially insipid can attain a compelling and inexplicable level of fascination Of course, you could say similar things about non-parents playing games for hou…

The thing is, you've just spent a month watching this pair of eyes follow you around the room, and this face very slowly get the hang of smiling (initially it is only when they are defecating).

When they get to the stage of being able to hold objects, this is a major event. When they get the hang of putting stuff in their own mouths during teething, rather than screaming until you let them bite your finger, is another, similar world-changing event.

This was a mystery to me too, before. Now I understand, and am even mildly interested in other peoples' babies (since I have one to compare them with.)

Parenting also has another similarity with D&D: your adversary is surprisingly intelligent. (when they're grouchy, they'll see through your hacks very quickly and scream until you do it properly, however tired you are. A "hack" in this instance might be giving them the same toy to chew again, rather than a new one from the mat.)

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#386

Post by thearn4 »

daxfohl wrote: post #311

All the responses here indicate the same "la dee da having kids is so wonderful that you don't even miss the other stuff." Fuck that. I have kids and I totally miss being able to stay up all night working on stuff and exploring new technologies, feeling like the world is going on without me. Don't get me wrong, I'm a passable dad, spend as much time with kids as possible, take them out to libraries and parks and try…

It's a mix. On the one hand, I do also regret not being able to crunch things through the night like I used to. On the other hand, most of that stuff matters a lot less to me now than it used to.

I mean, I still do a fair amount of hobby stuff and learning new tech stacks, but it's just one part of my identity instead of being the primary part. If I was gung-ho about wanting to start a company and never got the chance, then I might feel more regret about it. But that has never been a personal goal of mine.

I've talked to a lot of dads at my workplace about this. Everyone has these questions come up, and everyone feels closest to their children at different timescales too. E.g. some dads do not feel close to their kids as babies at all, but became very attached once they started talking.

Lots of random thoughts there. Just don't beat yourself up over it.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#387

Post by xrd »

moron4hire wrote: post #217
stedaniels wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One handed typing? That's great, I'm glad it works for you. All babies and people are built differently. To call (what I imagine to be the majority) those babies that require attention, and those people who can't coherently code when giving their baby their attention, a myth. Sheesh. I wish you all the best.

No, you're missing the point. Most of what we think of as being "too busy" for any particular thing is a cognitive bias for forgetting just how much time we waste.

Exactly. There are so many times I'm exhausted after getting the kids to bed and I just browse the Internet. If I was really intentional about my time, even that fifteen minutes could be used to work towards my goals. But, there is a powerful story telling me that it won't make a difference if I just waste that time.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#388

Post by jstewartmobile »

paulcole wrote: post #278
jstewartmobile wrote: post #96

One of the many great things about children, if you're not a total heartless bastard of course, is that having them really sharpens your mind as to what's important and what's not. Most of these things the HN crowd obsesses over are shit, and the things that replace those things will also be shit, and the thing you make with those things--even if it makes you fabulously wealthy--will also be shit, and if you don't be…

>One of the many great things about children, if you're not a total heartless bastard of course, is that having them really sharpens your mind as to what's important and what's not. Why do parents think popping out a kid gives them some mystical wisdom? Maybe it just gives you one thing to focus all you energy on and suddenly that feels really important?

OP here. If being jarred from a pathological mindset by a major life event counts as "mystical wisdom," guilty as charged.

Cancer would probably have the same effect, but I prefer having kids. To each his own.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#389

Post by jakobegger »

throwaway243546 wrote: post #33

It depends. Some people have children that go to bed at 8pm and wake up at 8am. We have a 14 month old that wakes up 3 to 4 times every night. Even using strategies with my partner to take turns, it weighs down on us and sleep becomes the priority after the kid and work. I have no idea how people with more than 1 kid have any time to do anything, unless you have access to babysitters, of course.

When they get older they sleep better! Our kids woke up a lot too, now they go to bed at 7 and wake up between 6 and 7.

Also, two kids spend time with each other! Sometimes I can get a bit of work done while they are playing legos. That's pure bliss.

Re: Ask HN: Developers with kids, how do you skill up?

#390

Post by Joeri »

daxfohl wrote: post #311

All the responses here indicate the same "la dee da having kids is so wonderful that you don't even miss the other stuff." Fuck that. I have kids and I totally miss being able to stay up all night working on stuff and exploring new technologies, feeling like the world is going on without me. Don't get me wrong, I'm a passable dad, spend as much time with kids as possible, take them out to libraries and parks and try…

How do you know the other side would feel any better? If you had chosen not to have kids, would you lament your solitary existence and worry that maybe you've picked the wrong path?

Or put differently: how do you tell the difference between making the wrong choice and buyer's remorse?

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