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Show HN: Websites and Apps Built Without a Single Line of Code

builtwithoutcode.com

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Re: Show HN: Websites and Apps Built Without a Single Line of Code

#11

Post by levonterteryan »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #9

I often feel like there is an opportunity for a hybrid model. Build the app "without code" but then pay to download the code and customize it to your will / deploy on your own infrastructure. Not saying this would happen with this company but if you don't own the code you are just (as another poster put it) renting your app. If the company you are renting from goes under or raises their prices you are out of luck and…

What you say makes sense. But that just makes the subscription model of those platform obsolete. Bubble does offer an option to host the app on dedicated infrastructure but it will be still runnin on bubble with a paid subscription. Another thing is - bubble promised if they ever go out of business and shut down they will make their code open source so that everyone can continue running their apps built on Bubble using their own servers. It sounds fair enough to me.

Re: Show HN: Websites and Apps Built Without a Single Line of Code

#12

Post by nbar1 »

levonterteryan wrote: post #10
throwaway2016a wrote: post #9

I often feel like there is an opportunity for a hybrid model. Build the app "without code" but then pay to download the code and customize it to your will / deploy on your own infrastructure. Not saying this would happen with this company but if you don't own the code you are just (as another poster put it) renting your app. If the company you are renting from goes under or raises their prices you are out of luck and…

What you say makes sense. But that just makes the subscription model of those platform obsolete. Bubble does offer an option to host the app on dedicated infrastructure but it will be still runnin on bubble with a paid subscription. Another thing is - bubble promised if they ever go out of business and shut down they will make their code open source so that everyone can continue running their apps built on Bubble usi…

Yeah... "promised"

Consider the trend we're seeing where a company is acquired and ultimately shut down. Those "promises" are (likely) no longer even the founders decision. What happens then?

Edit: it may also be a good idea to disclose that you're the founder/CEO of a Bubble partner.

Re: Show HN: Websites and Apps Built Without a Single Line of Code

#13

Post by onion2k »

levonterteryan wrote: post #10
throwaway2016a wrote: post #9

I often feel like there is an opportunity for a hybrid model. Build the app "without code" but then pay to download the code and customize it to your will / deploy on your own infrastructure. Not saying this would happen with this company but if you don't own the code you are just (as another poster put it) renting your app. If the company you are renting from goes under or raises their prices you are out of luck and…

What you say makes sense. But that just makes the subscription model of those platform obsolete. Bubble does offer an option to host the app on dedicated infrastructure but it will be still runnin on bubble with a paid subscription. Another thing is - bubble promised if they ever go out of business and shut down they will make their code open source so that everyone can continue running their apps built on Bubble usi…

What you say makes sense. But that just makes the subscription model of those platform obsolete.

That just means they'd need to charge more than their estimated customer lifetime value to make it worthwhile. If they thought a customer typically stays on the platform for 18 months then they could charge the equivalent of 19 months of fees to download the code in order to make more money than they would hosting the app themselves. If they factored in the cost saving from keeping the app running and supported they could charge much less and still make more money than they would hosting the app.

Re: Show HN: Websites and Apps Built Without a Single Line of Code

#14

Post by pavlov »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #9

I often feel like there is an opportunity for a hybrid model. Build the app "without code" but then pay to download the code and customize it to your will / deploy on your own infrastructure. Not saying this would happen with this company but if you don't own the code you are just (as another poster put it) renting your app. If the company you are renting from goes under or raises their prices you are out of luck and…

... if you don't own the code you are just renting your app.

This is a really important point IMO, and a major problem with the business model of most "app builder" type platforms.

Owning the code matters even to non-developers. Anything beyond a static prototype can be expected to require custom programming at some point, but it's typically impossible if you are locked in as a "renter" on a closed WYSIWYG platform.

I've worked on a couple of projects that have tried to solve parts of this, most recently a product called React Studio. It just launched in version 1.0:

https://reactstudio.com

It's a visual front-end design tool that export high-quality React code and complete projects using Facebook's "create-react-app" toolchain (Node, Webpack, Babel).

Re: Show HN: Websites and Apps Built Without a Single Line of Code

#15

Post by throwaway2016a »

pavlov wrote: post #14
throwaway2016a wrote: post #9

I often feel like there is an opportunity for a hybrid model. Build the app "without code" but then pay to download the code and customize it to your will / deploy on your own infrastructure. Not saying this would happen with this company but if you don't own the code you are just (as another poster put it) renting your app. If the company you are renting from goes under or raises their prices you are out of luck and…

... if you don't own the code you are just renting your app. This is a really important point IMO, and a major problem with the business model of most "app builder" type platforms. Owning the code matters even to non-developers. Anything beyond a static prototype can be expected to require custom programming at some point, but it's typically impossible if you are locked in as a "renter" on a closed WYSIWYG platform.…

This looks really awesome. I'm downloading a demo now to give it a spin. Good work.

Re: Show HN: Websites and Apps Built Without a Single Line of Code

#16

Post by levonterteryan »

nbar1 wrote: post #12
levonterteryan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you say makes sense. But that just makes the subscription model of those platform obsolete. Bubble does offer an option to host the app on dedicated infrastructure but it will be still runnin on bubble with a paid subscription. Another thing is - bubble promised if they ever go out of business and shut down they will make their code open source so that everyone can continue running their apps built on Bubble usi…

Yeah... "promised" Consider the trend we're seeing where a company is acquired and ultimately shut down. Those "promises" are (likely) no longer even the founders decision. What happens then? Edit: it may also be a good idea to disclose that you're the founder/CEO of a Bubble partner.

Agree - disclosing that I'm the founder of Bubble certified partner. Been working with them for a while and they really do a great job creating a no code community. Agree that in case if they get sold the decision is no theirs anymore to open or not the source code. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Re: Show HN: Websites and Apps Built Without a Single Line of Code

#17

Post by ksikka »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #9

I often feel like there is an opportunity for a hybrid model. Build the app "without code" but then pay to download the code and customize it to your will / deploy on your own infrastructure. Not saying this would happen with this company but if you don't own the code you are just (as another poster put it) renting your app. If the company you are renting from goes under or raises their prices you are out of luck and…

I tried this a few years ago actually. Search for Appcubator.

The issue is the market is bimodal and there's not really any room for a middle ground. Developers prefer to have full control over their architecture and they have varied and evolving opinions. Non-technical folks tend to churn once they reach the "download your code" step.

Ultimately I think the best software will be created by the developers, who don't need a tool like this.

Re: Show HN: Websites and Apps Built Without a Single Line of Code

#18

Post by startupdiscuss »

So close.

I really want something like this but not quite this.

In my mind you have a visual builder like this that puts out maybe some bootstrap code. (Jetstrap or Bootply).

Then the back end is already hotwired up to something like Django/Rails with a database, hosted somewhere like DO, VULTR etc.

And you can move any of these pieces around, so you can move from DO to VULTR or move databases from Postgres to Mysql, by clicking a button.

You have access to all the code.

It works pretty much like bubble but out of open sources tools that are cobbled together and you have the access.

Re: Show HN: Websites and Apps Built Without a Single Line of Code

#19

Post by beaconstudios »

startupdiscuss wrote: post #18

So close. I really want something like this but not quite this. In my mind you have a visual builder like this that puts out maybe some bootstrap code. (Jetstrap or Bootply). Then the back end is already hotwired up to something like Django/Rails with a database, hosted somewhere like DO, VULTR etc. And you can move any of these pieces around, so you can move from DO to VULTR or move databases from Postgres to Mysql,…

hi, I'm working on something similar to Bubble myself - what makes you say that you want such a tool to generate open source code?

Re: Show HN: Websites and Apps Built Without a Single Line of Code

#20

Post by startupdiscuss »

beaconstudios wrote: post #19
startupdiscuss wrote: post #18

So close. I really want something like this but not quite this. In my mind you have a visual builder like this that puts out maybe some bootstrap code. (Jetstrap or Bootply). Then the back end is already hotwired up to something like Django/Rails with a database, hosted somewhere like DO, VULTR etc. And you can move any of these pieces around, so you can move from DO to VULTR or move databases from Postgres to Mysql,…

hi, I'm working on something similar to Bubble myself - what makes you say that you want such a tool to generate open source code?

Well, the big issue with any of these is that you invariably find yourself needing that one feature so badly.

"Here is your site!"

"Great, let's add authentication."

"Cool, do you want to login with Google, Twitter or Facebook?"

"Github..."

"Ooh, add it to the list..."

And then you're waiting. This doesn't just happen once, it happens constantly on all kinds of things you need. This way you can go in and change it around.

You already have a nice CSS pattern, you just drop it in.

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