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Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

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Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#31
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD designs are used as a part of the design, and AMD has shown x86 and ARM chips which fit in the same sockets

On the same motherboards? That's rather impressive, if the same motherboard can support two different chip architectures. Having an ARM chip that just happens to use an AM3/AM4 socket is less impressive.

And it means that presumably you could put a RISC-V or a Power8 in there too. ;- )

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#32
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD designs are used as a part of the design, and AMD has shown x86 and ARM chips which fit in the same sockets

On the same motherboards? That's rather impressive, if the same motherboard can support two different chip architectures. Having an ARM chip that just happens to use an AM3/AM4 socket is less impressive.

AM4 chips are SoCs which do not need a chipset to work technically

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#33

> We wouldn't even bring something to a conference if we didn't think this was a committed project and something that's part of our road map." As anyone who rode the rollercoaster of abandonment in the ActiveX years recalls, their previous MO was all about things that became uncommitted after being in their road map :( I really hope there's some kind of future for non-Intel players.

ActiveX deserved abandonment, but anyone who remembers those years probably also remembers that Microsoft is capable of supporting NT on many different architectures.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has UWP Apps as part of Windows 10. Any UWP application will automatically run in the .NET Virtual Machine and work on both x86 and ARM. That, in combination with emulation for the x86-based legacy stuff, should be a powerful reason to use the Microsoft platform. Even if ARM servers don't become a thing, the support of ARM servers only benefits Microsoft and their current "Universal Windows Platform" strate…

Yes, Microsoft has UWP. No, UWP and .NET are orthogonal. When I need to, I’m using C++ to develop my UWP apps just fine. Edit: and even when using .NET, by default, UWP apps don’t run in the virtual machine. Instead, they’re compiled to native code with .NET Native.

This is correct. However, it's important to point out that the .NET native compilation can also target ARM architectures. For native development in C++, one would need to build and distribute ARM-targeted binaries also in order to actually be "universal".

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#35
This could well be a negotiating strategy to rejigger the relationship with Intel. Dell did exactly the same thing a number of times for similar reasons.

So all you do is: put out some press releases, ramp up some hires, put out some glossy product roadmaps. Intel starts to get separation anxiety and flinches: well, maybe they can afford to come closer to AMD prices for another year. They kiss up and you back out of your false posturing. Rinse and repeat every few years.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#36
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD designs are used as a part of the design, and AMD has shown x86 and ARM chips which fit in the same sockets

On the same motherboards? That's rather impressive, if the same motherboard can support two different chip architectures. Having an ARM chip that just happens to use an AM3/AM4 socket is less impressive.

I'm purely a layman in this space, but I don't see why it would be impossible. Pretty much all modern CPUs are actually SoCs. Modern peripheral connections like PCIe and USB 3 have direct access to the CPU rather than going through custom bridge chips, simplifying board design and making it possible to use the same board for two architectures. Audio and network chipsets don't care what architecture the CPU uses.

Again, I'm far from an expert but it seems like a simple enough solution.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#37

Im very curious how this will work for AMD with their K12 chip. They will have high performance x86_64 and AARCH64 chips.

Last I read K12 was cancelled.

I don't believe it was canceled, it was certainly delayed to finish Zen though.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#38
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn't it microsoft who are making x86 emulation for ARM

I would think any cost per performance advantage would be lost.

I think the point is that Microsoft can how ship Surface devices with ARM chips that can occasionally run x86 applications when needed. And it also allows Microsoft to ditch Intel if they really wanted to.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think any cost per performance advantage would be lost.

I think the point is that Microsoft can how ship Surface devices with ARM chips that can occasionally run x86 applications when needed. And it also allows Microsoft to ditch Intel if they really wanted to.

Hopefully they get it right this time. The last ARM Surfaces (Surface RTs) were hot garbage, barely functional enough to do email and a little web browsing on.

Re: Microsoft Pledges to Use ARM Server Chips, Threatening Intel's Dominance

#40
post #16

Competition is great, but this also seems like a rather big setback to the goal of having multi-cloud applications, in instances where the app can only run on x86-64.

There are fewer binary apps these days though. Java/Scala, C#/F#, JS, Python, Erlang should all be fine.

If you need a binary, Go can be cross-compiled for ARM as well.
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