Why Facts Don't Change Our Minds
271–280 of 347 posts
Re: Why Facts Don't Change Our Minds
#272People tell lies if truth hurts their self-esteem.
Re: Why Facts Don't Change Our Minds
#273Facts don't change our minds because we make up our world views and beliefs in a way that's expedient for us to happily continue about our lives. For instance, we all NEED to believe we're the 'good' guys. Whether the 'we' is our religion, our job, our state, political stance, etc... This prevents existential angst from realizing we're in the wrong, and then needing to change our behaviour which would disrupt our eve…
That sounds like a good strategy for peace of mind, or social harmony, but a poor strategy for individual survival. Believing that the police (or your six-shooter) will protect you from harm, when they won't, doesn't even look good on a tombstone. IMO, the better question is: why is peace of mind more important to us than actually being right? If we really are enlightened (unsuperstitious), why isn't it more importan…
>why is peace of mind more important to us than actually being right?
Because more important than attending directly to the growth of knowledge is guarding the conditions under which it can grow.
The desire to be right is often used against us -- as embodied in traditional ideas about Satan, who brings light (hence 'Lucifer') and uses the truth selectively to accuse.
Re: Why Facts Don't Change Our Minds
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
> All you are really saying is its impossible to know anything for certain. Yeah, in the sense that all you are saying is its possible to have degrees of trust on difference sources of "facts". That said, you'd be surprised how often the fact (pun intended) that it's "impossible to know anything for certain" is lost on people. > Having a citation from a well regarded source is better than having no citation. Peer rev…
Exactly, it has been a fact for a very long time that fats are quite bad for you and you should mostly eat carbs. A fact published in reputable sources and irrefutable to most people.
[deleted]
Re: Why Facts Don't Change Our Minds
#275Facts don't change our minds because we make up our world views and beliefs in a way that's expedient for us to happily continue about our lives. For instance, we all NEED to believe we're the 'good' guys. Whether the 'we' is our religion, our job, our state, political stance, etc... This prevents existential angst from realizing we're in the wrong, and then needing to change our behaviour which would disrupt our eve…
That sounds like a good strategy for peace of mind, or social harmony, but a poor strategy for individual survival. Believing that the police (or your six-shooter) will protect you from harm, when they won't, doesn't even look good on a tombstone. IMO, the better question is: why is peace of mind more important to us than actually being right? If we really are enlightened (unsuperstitious), why isn't it more importan…
> Believing that the police (or your six-shooter) will protect you from harm, when they won't, doesn't even look good on a tombstone
They won't save us, but statistically, we won't need either to save us. Even defenseless animals often survive in herds or schools. We want to believe the police will save us to not lead a paranoid existence, just as the herd animal isn't betting on it being dinner.
> IMO, the better question is: why is peace of mind more important to us than actually being right?
Because doing things necessary for survival doesn't require a correct worldview. Witness how many people who hold archaic beliefs manage to survive, gain importance in society and reproduce.
Edit - a good example is religious beliefs. They give some people a sense of purpose, a sense of kinship, and a belief that they'll personally succeed. Even if a religious person succeeds on their own devices, they'll attribute it to their deity as the psychological boosts from believing are more important than the validity of the beliefs themselves.
This can even be seen in scientific studies on the brain while praying/meditating, and the practical benefits have been observed across religious lines.
Re: Why Facts Don't Change Our Minds
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What you just wrote was nuanced, and there's very little room for nuance recently. It certainly seems like that has become the case though I wonder if it's always been like that and modern technology just exposes it better. > "Tyranny is the deliberate removal of nuance" I saw a stand up comedian misquote that as "Tyranny is the absence of nuance" which I think I actually preferred. As for your point on the vaccina…
I am afraid I fall into one of these extreme camps. I don't see room for a gray area on this issues like I can on other issues. I see no practical downside and lots of benefit to vaccines. Children, plural, Children have died in my home city because of this anti-scientific attitude and the "serious side-effects" are either non-existent or so rare as to not be worth discussing. There is no link with autism, and this i…
If we can acknowledge that compulsory vaccination is coercive, or, on the flip side, that vaccination in general is an opportunity to perform a service to society then fewer people will be tempted by the anti-vaxxers. Which would be a practical benefit.
Re: Why Facts Don't Change Our Minds
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is basically the NRAs strategy as well and it's been incredibly successful. They know that their opponents intend to use compromise as a foothold for total disarmament so they have no choice but to occasionally take extreme or irrational stances. I don't blame them in the slightest.
> They know that their opponents intend to use compromise as a foothold for total disarmament. Really? Care to provide any factual evidence for that statement?
"If I could have banned them all - 'Mr. and Mrs. America turn in your guns' - I would have!"
- Diane Feinstein
"All we ask for is registration, just like we do for cars." - Chuck Schumer
Look at Australia - first they registered, then they confiscated (go down the list, knock on doors).
edit: upon reread, this comment seems like partisan fluff. I am for common sense gun control, but unfortunately our political climate punishes compromise -- so I just wanted to point out, yes, there are in fact people who want to take 'em all away, forever.
Re: Why Facts Don't Change Our Minds
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except for Climate Change Denialism, those problems predate empiricism as a thing noticeable enough to have coherent opposition, by (at least) hundreds of generations. They aren't produced by anti-empiricism (though, insofar as empiricism threatens them, they may be a source of resistance to empiricism.)
> Except for Climate Change Denialism That's the flavor of the decade, yes, but back in the 70s there was "zero population denialism" which is roughly equivalent (there was a big scare that the earth's population was unsustainable and we were rapidly running out of resources and couples needed to stop having more than 2 babies and if you disagreed you were a zero population denier)
Well, sure, climate change denialism is also a manifestation of something older than empiricism and not a product of anti-empiricism, but that's a more involved argument and the other examples were clearer and simpler.
Re: Why Facts Don't Change Our Minds
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am afraid I fall into one of these extreme camps. I don't see room for a gray area on this issues like I can on other issues. I see no practical downside and lots of benefit to vaccines. Children, plural, Children have died in my home city because of this anti-scientific attitude and the "serious side-effects" are either non-existent or so rare as to not be worth discussing. There is no link with autism, and this i…
Here is the gray area, for a gander: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/feb/03/... This article is Pro-vaccine and agrees with the reported death count in 2014, for example at 122. In the case of vaccines I live completely in the gray areas. For example, there are something like 80 vaccines automatically given to children. Why don't we limit that to the vaccines that are absolutely necessary? Also p…
I'd like to read more on the cancer and pet vaccines issue. Can you point me toward any good journal articles?
Re: Why Facts Don't Change Our Minds
#280Fake news is essentially a man-in-the-middle attack.
Who's actually been to Iraq or Afghanistan? Who has actually seen first hand evidence of global warming or water pollution or of anything?
Most facts are too detached from ordinary reality. That's why the person in charge of relaying them can alter them as they see fit.
We're not to the point where we're faking wars (I don't think), so there are starting points. But the story, the narrative, and the facts of the matter are all subjected to manipulation. Even the "honest" media is guilty of sensationalism and clickbait.
But the point is, when these are your "facts", you can't turn around and tell normal people to be more scientific or to choose your sources more wisely. You saying that just makes you another channel, waving yet another banner that says science, and a proponent of your version of the truth.