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To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

latimes.com

511–520 of 689 posts

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sitting right next to where they've been drilling on Devonshire street for the past 4 months to move a power cable to central station! I've taken busses through Sydney for years, and to be honest, I'm really hoping the LRS does what they promise it will, because the bus system here is so bad.

According to the Sydney Morning Herald, one-third of buses will still be required when the light rail starts operating in 2019 due to insufficient capacity, rising to 80% of current buses by 2031! http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-cbd-and-south-east-light-ra...

I never really thought that light rail would replace buses completely.

One can't help but imagine how many more buses we would need without light rail, no?

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sitting right next to where they've been drilling on Devonshire street for the past 4 months to move a power cable to central station! I've taken busses through Sydney for years, and to be honest, I'm really hoping the LRS does what they promise it will, because the bus system here is so bad.

I think it'll be fine for Sydney, but I'm in Newcastle and it seems so daft...

Maybe future capacity planning?

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but travelling on those systems takes a long time. When I lived in London a 1 hour commute was seen as totally normal. That was by train and I had a very direct single overground train to take (Kentish town to Chiswick if I remember).

An hour reading, sleeping or just zoned out on a train is a lot less fatigue than an hour operating a car in stop-and-go traffic.

[deleted]

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#514
Mass transit needs to take a page from Uber. The reason for declining ridership is because there's not enough trains or buses, etc. Get some funding, increase the number of trains by 5x, and people will start to go and use them because they're convenient. We need VCs for public service projects.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#515
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a middle ground between buses and rail: building defacto rail lines by transforming far-left lanes and middle dividers into dedicated bus tracks and semipermanent bus stations. Urbanized (Gary Hustwit, 2011) highlights the TransMilenio bus system, which serves the city of Bogota. It specifically covers elevating the experience and status of taking the bus by adopting positive aspects of rail systems: covered…

LA already has some BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) lines like you describe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Metro_Busway These systems operate mostly in dedicated right-of-way. There are more planned. I think they have been quite successful, for the reasons you describe.

They are not ideal though. Travel times can be close to double using the orange line.

It's something I imagine people using only they're not in a hurry or can't drive for whatever reason.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#516
Tolls don't bother me personally. If it clears congestion and earmarks funds so that the people that use them pay for them; that's a good thing. However, isn't it a regressive tax? The price for the tolls will affect people with little money the most.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#517
post #142

The true solution to LA traffic will never happen. And that solution is buses. But not the current underfunded system that barely limps along. A massive number of buses, like 5x the current number. And combined with tolls for cars to get cars off the road. The large number of buses is critical because it greatly reduces wait time between transfers. It also allows adding express bus lines between major areas. But buse…

Buses in the LA region have a bad reputation because of other bus passengers. If you ride the bus you might have to sit next to someone who smells bad or plays loud music or acts out in inappropriate ways. That's why everyone who can afford it drives their own car: to be alone. The reputation would improve if they could get more "regular" people riding, but it's kind of a chicken-or-the-egg problem.

They also often take considerably compared to driving.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#518
post #496

Collecting money via tolls has a higher administrative cost compared to collecting money via the gas tax [1]. The infrastucture to collect the gas tax is already in place. In contrast, there are a lot of things that need to be done before tolls can be put in place (legal, contracting, setting up collection points, etc). Plus, the public-private partnerships that some governments get into for these types of toll roads…

It's not the same effect as dynamic tolling, which can change depending on traffic.

That is true, but a similar effect can be achieved via stop and go traffic that occurs under congested conditions. Gas mileage, for most vehicles, drops when that occurs.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#519
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bus anyway in LA is substantially longer than driving. LA traffic is so annoying that a lot of people would likely take the bus if it was faster. If there were 10x more busses, and I could pay $10 for an all day pass, I'd take the bus every other day. Especially if the higher cost limited those who unfortunately use mass transit as temporary shelter. (And find some alternative temporary no strings attached shelter…

Depending on traffic, the bus is typically about the same, maybe 5 minutes more on the hour long ride I took for 2 years under the 405 everyday. You have to add in the time it takes to find parking for your car, which a bus does not do. Yes, some days are worse, some are better, but for me it was about the same for a hour+ commute.

According to Google maps, taking the bus to my job would increase my travel time by at least 50 minutes each way.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#520
Tolls do not reduce traffic. Chicago's (and when I say Chicago, I mean it in the same vein that the author uses "LA", a massive metro area) installation of toll systems in my life here have caused the infrastructure to perpetually be under construction for the last 20 years I've been here.

At best, tolls remove large trucks from the roads - which is not the problem in L.A. Mostly though, they just make the situation worse, and more expensive for users that have little alternative.

The solution is the same as it's always been: stop building areas with car travel as the only option. The little things like bus routes dropping off at a stop that has no sidewalks and no legitimate way to cross a street without a mile long detour for a pedestrian are what make buses not work. The same features that funnel cars into shopping centers disregard the human walking element and make it all but impossible to move in this suburban sprawl.

The physical distances people typically go in one of the most beautiful climates in the country, cooped up in a car, makes me also wonder why there isn't more of a push to create safe cycling routes? I ride 11 miles each way to work here in Chicago, all year, and in the winter extremes it can be occasionally miserable, but one thing I don't have much problem with is safety. I have a path or lane almost my entire commute, and other than the 1 mile of the heart of the loop, it's basically stress free. If I had this safety with LA's climate, I would literally become an evangelist for bike commuting.

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