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To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

latimes.com

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Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#381

Post by bsder »

jessaustin wrote: post #289
bsder wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or carry concealed permits. Um, no. The crazy people won't care, the gangbangers will be better armed and generally in a group, and the single mugger will now take your wallet AND gun AND may shoot you if he gets the drop on you instead of just taking your wallet. > in a small town It shows. Your assessment of the probability of crime and how you will interact with it is completely wrong.

'bsder you seem pretty confident here, despite the fact that everything you've said contradicts what I've heard from LEOs and other trained firearms users.

> despite the fact that everything you've said contradicts what I've heard from LEOs and other trained firearms users.

Really?

1) Muggers

The LEO's I deal with are normally "Just give them your wallet and phone. Do not fight back."

Now, admittedly, most of this advice is from the US and being near big cities. In the US, we don't tend to have kidnappings--normally muggers will take your wallet and phone and run unless you are stupidly in some dangerous area.

2) Gangbangers

Generally will leave you alone unless it is a target of opportunity. However, teenagers are stupid and can consider truly bizarre things "disrespect". Combine this with drugs and you can get some exceptions.

3) Crazy/homeless

Generally the stuff they do never rises to the level of "I can shoot him" until it's too late for you to react.

And, this is, in fact, the crux of the situation. By the time the situation escalates to the level of "I am legally allowed to shoot this person" the situation is often too far gone for the gun to be helpful.

Now, I'm not a tiny female, so I don't present a "target of opportunity". However, women are more often the victim of the gun in the house from their partner than from random strangers.

Finally, my only interactions with concealed carry in my family are accidents where someone almost got shot unintentionally. Nobody in my extended family has ever had to use a gun to defend themselves, but there have been a handful of mishaps (thankfully, nobody harmed).

The statistics are against concealed carry except in fairly exceptional circumstances (jewelers, for example).

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#382

Post by tn13 »

Osiris wrote: post #307

This is just a band-aid. Same with adding buses, lanes, trains, etc. When something goes wrong in software we usually try to resolve it by finding a root cause. There are a lot of cars on the roads. Why? People live far away from their work. Why? All the office buildings are in one central place. Why? ... Etc. The solutions to the root causes, whatever they are, are, unfortunately, a lot more complex and expensive th…

> Increase the cost of vehicle registration or gas taxes to encourage workers to prefer jobs closer to their home.

Or perhaps impose such high state taxes/ local body taxes that the people simply leave the town, state or even better the country! Just kidding. This is a very heavy handed solution that hurts a lot of people and especially poor, minorities and vulnerable groups.

Roads, Vehicles and Gas has far too many alternative uses and this sort of tax gives broad powers and worse more money to state which will then be used to enforce drug war and other bullshit laws. Above suggestion deeply hurts poor and vulnerable minorities who have to travel a lot for work. This is like shooting someone in chest because breast cancer was detected.

A toll however is a far better solution. A toll applied only on specific routes on specific times will directly change the traffic pattern and will have much greater consequences over longer time.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#383

Post by TomMarius »

timthelion wrote: post #316

One time I was crossing the street, and I almost got hit by some white asshole in his car, going way too fast. Actually, that happens all the time. That's why I always start shooting my machine gun at anything within 50 meters that moves.

There is one main difference, though. No one is forcing you to use car, but you'd like to force others not to.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#384

Post by tomjakubowski »

sampo wrote: post #160
bit_logic wrote: post #109

The true solution to LA traffic will never happen. And that solution is buses. But not the current underfunded system that barely limps along. A massive number of buses, like 5x the current number. And combined with tolls for cars to get cars off the road. The large number of buses is critical because it greatly reduces wait time between transfers. It also allows adding express bus lines between major areas. But buse…

> [rail] will always have the last mile issue That is true only for heavy rail (commuter trains). But light rail (trams, or perhaps called streetcars in American English) can have stops as often as buses. Here is a tram in Karlsruhe, Germany: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3470/3906930335_f3b2e209c2.jp... Here are some in Helsinki, Finland: http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/47004637.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/…

> But light rail (trams, or perhaps called streetcars in American English) can have stops as often as buses.

I have a hard time justifying trams/streetcars over buses. They largely seem equivalent except that buses are more flexible since they're not bound to a set of tracks. For example, if a car crash or other obstacle blocks the tram tracks, the trams have to wait for the obstacle to be cleared. A bus can just go around it.

Buses can (and do, in some places) carry transponders to give them signal priority, just like trams. They can even be given dedicated lanes. And trams don't really carry more passengers per square meter than buses do. The one advantage trams have that I can see is that they avoid the weird cultural stigma that buses tend to carry here in the US.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#385

Post by timthelion »

TomMarius wrote: post #378
timthelion wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any experience with busses? Was that experience "great"? For example, have you lived in Hong Kong, which I understand is a Bus city? I live in Prague, and the trams are great. It is a 100% better experience than driving. Smooth, quiet, usually plenty of leg room. Doesn't smell. The busses, however, are hell. That low key vibration of the motor, the smell of the gass, the cramped spaces, the steps, all add…

I think you live in a different Prague than I do, or you don't travel near the city centre often. When I tried to use trams in summer, they were full of people, so much I couldn't move, smelling and incredibly hot. I was very happy when my car finally got fixed. Yes, there are a lot of problems with driving (parking, one-way roads, ...), but it's much more comfortable, so much, that the discomfort caused by traffic i…

Sometimes the trams are full, yes. And sometimes there is trafic on the roads.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#386

Post by thethirdone »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #351
adrr wrote: post #77

Problem with LA is that we build horizontally and not vertically. We keep adding more homes in suburbs and not building up in the cities that have the jobs. There's a big anti growth movement preventing high density housing. They have been successful in preventing high density projects like the Bergamot transit village(on a rail line too). Today we're voting on initiative that prevents large scale developments. If it…

> Problem with LA is that we build horizontally and not vertically. This is an often repeated statement that is a myth. Los Angeles is the densest urban area in the US. > There's a big anti growth movement preventing high density housing. They have been successful in preventing high density projects like the Bergamot transit village(on a rail line too). IMO, this is the root of the problem. Areas like Koreatown and H…

> This is an often repeated statement that is a myth. Los Angeles is the densest urban area in the US.

Source? I would think both NYC and SF would be dramatically denser. A quick google supports this assumption. LA is ~5000 people / mile^2 and NYC is ~27,000 people per mile^2.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#387

Post by rebootthesystem »

galdosdi wrote: post #123
rebootthesystem wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument for public transportation in Los Angeles is a continuing theme...and it is also one that is nonsensical in the context of this city. The city of Los Angeles, and by that I mean the sprawling megalopolis it really is, simply isn't built for public transportation. A fundamental shift in urban design of massive proportions would have to occur for mass transportation to make dent here. In order to affect thi…

Baloney. Just add a bunch of buses, with exclusive bus lanes covering their whole route. Choose the initial routes so they'll at least break even. Bam, you have a good public transit system that is much faster than private cars due to being immune to traffic, and you didn't have to confiscate any property, build anything expensive, or do anything else exciting or risky. Everyone's obsessed with rail, and rail is nice…

How did you know my name is Baloney Bam?

You must not live in Los Angeles. If you took a lane away on every freeway the mayhem you'd create would be indescribably. In some places you can't due to the topology of the roads.

Besides, buses will guarantee that it will take three hours to move a handful of miles because they would have to get on and off the freeways at regular intervals and brave street level congestion while then making stops at non-existing parking lots (they don't exist now) to pick-up and drop off people.

There are no good mass transit solutions in Los Angeles. I've lived here long enough to see and analyze what is happening from multiple vantage points. We lived by the beach, desert, inland and in a couple of valleys. It's a mess. This megalopolis did not evolve to be mass transit friendly.

I say this with sadness because there's nothing I'd like more than not to own a car. I am simply being a realist on this one.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#388

Post by shams93 »

Osiris wrote: post #307

This is just a band-aid. Same with adding buses, lanes, trains, etc. When something goes wrong in software we usually try to resolve it by finding a root cause. There are a lot of cars on the roads. Why? People live far away from their work. Why? All the office buildings are in one central place. Why? ... Etc. The solutions to the root causes, whatever they are, are, unfortunately, a lot more complex and expensive th…

The real problem is how impossible it is to get remote work in LA, employers here demand onsite even when it hurts the project, its very hard to get remote work living in La as most employers are looking for remote employees in cheaper cost of living areas.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#389

Post by shams93 »

shams93 wrote: post #388
Osiris wrote: post #307

This is just a band-aid. Same with adding buses, lanes, trains, etc. When something goes wrong in software we usually try to resolve it by finding a root cause. There are a lot of cars on the roads. Why? People live far away from their work. Why? All the office buildings are in one central place. Why? ... Etc. The solutions to the root causes, whatever they are, are, unfortunately, a lot more complex and expensive th…

The real problem is how impossible it is to get remote work in LA, employers here demand onsite even when it hurts the project, its very hard to get remote work living in La as most employers are looking for remote employees in cheaper cost of living areas.

I have to travel 6 hours a day to get to work and back but my employer doesn't let me work remote, not even 1 day a week, attitude is its hard for everyone to get here and the harder the location is to reach, the better.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#390

Post by bobthepanda »

Osiris wrote: post #307

This is just a band-aid. Same with adding buses, lanes, trains, etc. When something goes wrong in software we usually try to resolve it by finding a root cause. There are a lot of cars on the roads. Why? People live far away from their work. Why? All the office buildings are in one central place. Why? ... Etc. The solutions to the root causes, whatever they are, are, unfortunately, a lot more complex and expensive th…

The problem is that mixed use doesn't necessarily lead to any of this. People want to live where they want to live, which is not necessarily next to work. Exhibit A of this is Tokyo, which despite being very dense, very mixed-use, extensive public transport, tolled highways, expensive vehicle registration, etc., is still commuting hell.
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