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The Uber Conflation

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111–120 of 143 posts

Re: The Uber Conflation

#111
post #31

"Otto having stolen intellectual property are very serious, it’s worth remembering that the entire industry is basically built on theft" There's an interesting argument in the article, but the amount of squid-ink being squirted overwhelms it. A big chunk of the article is pretty much "They didn't do it, and if they did, look at everyone else." Which is pretty much bullshit. Where it lands for me: If the CEO wants to…

I work at Google, though not on anything remotely related to cars/transportation, nonetheless I'm clearly not unbiased here. At any rate this part of Ben Thompson's post annoyed me for a different reason - he conflates and equates patent infringement with theft of trade secrets, while those are in fact quite different things, and have correspondingly quite different forms of relief/punishment. I don't have a strong p…

My thoughts exactly. Having read the lawsuit in its entirety, if true the claim by Waymo against Otto/Uber is not only a tale of egregious theft by a rogue former employee, but also an indication of Uber's lack of competence when it comes to self-driving technology.

The following quote from Bloomberg's piece revealing the acquisition shows the panic Uber felt:

“The minute it was clear to us that our friends in Mountain View were going to be getting in the ride-sharing space, we needed to make sure there is an alternative [self-driving car],” says Kalanick. “Because if there is not, we’re not going to have any business.” Developing an autonomous vehicle, he adds, “is basically existential for us.”

This observation understandably led them down the path to acquire Otto, which by all accord would provide much needed technology and legitimacy in this arena. However, their diligence failed to uncover that Otto's progress was completely unrealistic for having been incorporated for just 6 months. One may argue that Otto was meant for the sole purpose of trucking/logistics, but again from the same Bloomberg piece:

"The Otto deal will help; the company makes its own laser detection, or lidar, system, used in many self-driving cars. Kalanick believes that Uber can use the data collected from its app, where human drivers and riders are logging roughly 100 million miles per day, to quickly improve its self-driving mapping and navigation systems. “Nobody has set up software that can reliably drive a car safely without a human,” Kalanick says. “We are focusing on that.”

Is it fair to question the expertise and go-to-market viability of a company that cannot even understand what they are purchasing could not have possibly been stood up from a cold start in 6 months? I think so.

This leads me to revisit Uber's viability as a business that can one day go public, make a profit, and return the unprecedented amount of capital it has raised. While this has been dissected from almost every angle, most opinions have baked in the assumption that eventually Uber will execute seamlessly on the transition to self-driving cars and further entrench the advantage they have created by controlling demand. Well, this lawsuit throws a major wrench into that assumption. From Wired:

"First, it allows plaintiffs to ask the court for an immediate, temporary injunction, giving Waymo the power to shut down Uber’s self-driving truck and car experiments until this is sorted. Second, it lets the accuser seek permanent injunctive relief—complicated legalese for forcing Uber to halt any part of autonomous program dealing with the allegedly swiped lidar. Third, the plaintiff can seize the products of its trade secrets, even before the case is decided. In other words, Google could use this legislation to not only temporarily halt Uber’s progress, but take away its toys."

Safe to say that if these implications play out, Uber will be extremely handicapped in the race to autonomy. Public progress reveals Tesla and Waymo are both further along than most people realize. Were one of them to launch a fleet of self-driving cars offering a ride sharing service (as Waymo plans to by the end of 2017), it would seem they could quickly chip away at Uber's demand advantage by competing on the lower prices afforded by not having drivers.

Timelines and technology costs are always major variables in such nascent areas, but the technology gap for Uber to close becomes that much bigger if this suit goes against them - probably too big a gap for their network of riders, routing expertise, or a group of engineers from Carnegie Mellon to defend against.

Re: The Uber Conflation

#112
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter when it comes to the morality of breaking the law? You might consider the latter action to be morally wrong, but it seems like it would be because of its impact on others, not because it's breaking the law.

There is no inherent morality, positive or negative, in obeying the law; the law is not meant as a moral authority, but a social one. To be consistent in your logic, you would have to argue that helping slaves escape their condition in 1800s America would be morally wrong, as it would be breaking the law.

I think you might have me backwards. I'm arguing that there is no inherent immorality to breaking the law, and that deliberately breaking a law and paying the resulting fines is a reasonable thing to do.

Re: The Uber Conflation

#113
post #103
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He is completely, 100% responsible for the culture of his company. The term "culture" is not compatible with the idea of assigning 100% responsibility to one person. In fact it's practically the antithesis. > No one who uses the phrase "SJWs" should be taken seriously. Why? > Because there's no way they actually happened. They hired an actor to defame Kalanick. And no one had ever experienced sexual harassment and h…

Nothing negative that has come out of Uber has been faked. You have absolutely no evidence to say otherwise. And of course a video of the CEO of Uber berating one of his drivers was always going to see the light of day. "The term "culture" is not compatible with the idea of assigning 100% responsibility to one person. In fact it's practically the antithesis." Again, the buck stops there. EVERYTHING at Uber is Kalanic…

CEO has 100% responsibility that his/her company fulfils its fiduciary duty to investors. They do not have this more nebulous "duty to society" responsibility that puts them on the hook for every single instance of bad behaviour by any of the employees. It would be more than adequate for Kalinack to simply order a review of HR policy.

True I don't have evidence that the #UberSurvivor blog was fake but there's also been zero proof that it is real and I would be willing to bet money that none will ever appear.

Re: The Uber Conflation

#114

If Uber was trading on wall street it would be shorted to oblivion. When this unicorn implodes, it's going to change the valuation dynamics. Downvotes not going to fix Uber.

You're getting downvotes for claiming absolute knowledge of a very complex issue. :P

Re: The Uber Conflation

#115
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about being rich at all. Someone barely making ends meet running their own courier service could do the same thing. It's up to them to figure out if the increase in deliveries per day is worth the cost of the tickets. There are fines that impact big companies and rich people less because of deep pocketbooks. But parking tickets on delivery trucks are not such a fine. They scale linearly with bad-parking acti…

"Someone barely making ends meet running their own courier service could do the same thing." This statement reeks of ignorance. That's like saying a poor person could easily afford chemo, while ignoring the fact that they won't be able to afford food or shelter at the same time.

Because it is a risk per delivery, it averages out over the work week to simply be a certain number of pennies per delivery. Rich and poor alike can survive a percentage cost like that. It's the exact opposite of a huge fixed cost like chemo.

Re: The Uber Conflation

#116
post #113
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing negative that has come out of Uber has been faked. You have absolutely no evidence to say otherwise. And of course a video of the CEO of Uber berating one of his drivers was always going to see the light of day. "The term "culture" is not compatible with the idea of assigning 100% responsibility to one person. In fact it's practically the antithesis." Again, the buck stops there. EVERYTHING at Uber is Kalanic…

CEO has 100% responsibility that his/her company fulfils its fiduciary duty to investors. They do not have this more nebulous "duty to society" responsibility that puts them on the hook for every single instance of bad behaviour by any of the employees. It would be more than adequate for Kalinack to simply order a review of HR policy. True I don't have evidence that the #UberSurvivor blog was fake but there's also be…

"They do not have this more nebulous "duty to society" responsibility that puts them on the hook for every single instance of bad behaviour by any of the employees."

Yes, they do. Again, they are entirely responsible for their company.

"It would be more than adequate for Kalinack to simply order a review of HR policy."

Like the several other times he's done that, and it failed to change anything?

Re: The Uber Conflation

#117
post #102
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had another experience in LA in 2014 where I got yelled at by a taxi driver because HIS card reader was broken and my credit card was flat so he couldn't use the old style imprint. > The taxis can suck it. They are unclean, expensive, and have irrational drivers that think they can push around their customers because they know there was no need to improve due to regulation. Unfortunately, these Taxi drivers are n…

> One driver kept a logbook of every passenger's name plus their source address and destination address. He was perfectly pleasant to talk to, but that logbook creeped me out. I don't know what kind of information Uber/Lyft sends back to their drivers, so this could easily be a mileage record for tax purposes.

That's still creepy as fuck.

Re: The Uber Conflation

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference? Please elaborate. As I see it, there are only a few citizens who benefitted-- those involved in the ownership of taxi companies & medallions.

Untrained Uber and Lyft drivers are all but required to violate the law and endanger others, in pursuit of "customer service." Pull over RIGHT HERE. Flip a U-turn RIGHT HERE. Customer must not walk FIVE FEET. Customer can open door RIGHT HERE. Ad nausuem. I bike commute in San Francisco and on a typical day I dodge literally dozens of illegally double-parked ride share cars occupying marked bike lanes. I have been ne…

My experience in NYC was that the medallion taxi drivers were much more willing to violate traffic laws. I've been hit by a taxi, never by an Uber.

Re: The Uber Conflation

#119
post #20

On the flipside, I, for one, view Uber’s regulatory maneuvering in a much more positive light. After all, thinking about the “spirit of the law” can lead to a very different conclusion: the purpose of taxi regulation, at least in theory, was not to entrench local monopolies but rather to ensure safety. If those goals can be met through technology — GPS tracking, reputation scoring, and the greater availability of tra…

Maybe at the expense of consumers, but not necessarily to the detriment of citizens.

A taxi monopoly can help citizens at the expense of consumers only to the extent that citizens are not consumers. If few citizens are consumers, it seems the taxi monopoly is not serving most citizens well. Isn't that a contradiction?

Re: The Uber Conflation

#120
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote, not data, but my experiences using Uber have been universally better than using taxis and the same is true for everyone I know who has moderate recent experience with both in the US. There may still be arguments to make that it's detrimental, or at least not beneficial for other reasons, or there may be data that contradicts my anecdote (if so, please link it), but I'm glad Uber exists and probably opposed…

A lot of people say the same thing you do -- their diverse anecdotes agree that regular cabs are obviously (better, worse) than uber/lyft/etc. The trouble is, they don't agree which way it goes. I think the resolution to this conondrum is, it varies based on city/region. Some areas had traditional taxis that are worse than ridesharing, and some better.

Name a region where taxis provide better service than "rideshare".
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