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To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

latimes.com

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Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#151

Post by jessriedel »

Nav_Panel wrote: post #131
bit_logic wrote: post #109

The true solution to LA traffic will never happen. And that solution is buses. But not the current underfunded system that barely limps along. A massive number of buses, like 5x the current number. And combined with tolls for cars to get cars off the road. The large number of buses is critical because it greatly reduces wait time between transfers. It also allows adding express bus lines between major areas. But buse…

> the bad reputation of buses Buses have a bad reputation compared to other modes of transit because they're so easily re-routable. A political whim could shut down a whole bus route in a day, leaving commuters stranded. Rail signals long-term investment, and neighborhoods will grow around rail because they can guarantee it'll be there for years to come.

Any data to back up that theory? The alternative theory that busses are undependable and low-status is more plausible to me.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#153

Post by s0uthPaw88 »

This is a classic externalities problem[0]:

My use of roadway space imposes a cost on other drivers because they now have less roadway to use leading to lower speeds. Currently, I do not have to pay for this cost leading me to use more roadway space than may be optimal. Taxing roadway use captures this cost and forces me to take it into consideration when choosing whether to drive.

[0]http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/basics/external.ht...

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#154

Post by Rebelgecko »

_-__--- wrote: post #97
ghaff wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost no cities have 24 hour mass transit including many that are considered to have good transit systems. That's a very high bar you're setting.

24hr service would be very expensive, but it seems that they should run the transit services until a little after the majority of bars and clubs close. It was nice here in Boston when they ran the T until a little past 2AM; they've since pulled that back to 12:30 or so. It can be kind of a pain, but Uber/Lyft are well established here.

It's certainly usable for that in LA, where last call is also 2am. I believe every train runs until 2 or 3 AM (on Fridays/Saturdays), and starts back up again by 5. Not quite 24 hours(except on NYE, when they don't stop), but still very usable.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#155

Post by jessriedel »

wutbrodo wrote: post #140
jessriedel wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True ride-sharing could also help, and sooner than self-driving cars. Uber and Lyft talked about matching departing commuters in real-time, which would greatly reduce the inflexibility that makes traditional carpooling so unpleasant. I'm not sure why that never took off.

I've taken Uberpool for longish distances around LA (mostly between ~Beverly Hills and the Valley), and it suuuuucks. Having to get off the freeway and get back on to pick up people adds a ton of time to commutes that aren't that long from the LA perspective.

Ok, but note this problem lessens as more people use the system.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#156

Post by pavel_lishin »

jessriedel wrote: post #82
pavel_lishin wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the incentive for people to be the driver in this scenario, other than not crapping up the commons (which in this case is the freeway?)

They get paid.

Wait, so this is just Uber where after you finish your short Uber shift, you go to work?

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#157

Post by s0uthPaw88 »

myowncrapulence wrote: post #3

Imagine how much more expensive living in LA will be. Instead of fixing their god awful public transit (like NYC) they want to punish people for using the only reliable mode of transportation?

There is no reason that the revenue generated from this could not be used to fund more public transit.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#158

Post by melvinmt »

kkitay wrote: post #145
bit_logic wrote: post #109

The true solution to LA traffic will never happen. And that solution is buses. But not the current underfunded system that barely limps along. A massive number of buses, like 5x the current number. And combined with tolls for cars to get cars off the road. The large number of buses is critical because it greatly reduces wait time between transfers. It also allows adding express bus lines between major areas. But buse…

There's a middle ground between buses and rail: building defacto rail lines by transforming far-left lanes and middle dividers into dedicated bus tracks and semipermanent bus stations. Urbanized (Gary Hustwit, 2011) highlights the TransMilenio bus system, which serves the city of Bogota. It specifically covers elevating the experience and status of taking the bus by adopting positive aspects of rail systems: covered…

They have the same thing in Istanbul: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrobus_(Istanbul)

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#159

Post by spollo »

jessriedel wrote: post #151
Nav_Panel wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the bad reputation of buses Buses have a bad reputation compared to other modes of transit because they're so easily re-routable. A political whim could shut down a whole bus route in a day, leaving commuters stranded. Rail signals long-term investment, and neighborhoods will grow around rail because they can guarantee it'll be there for years to come.

Any data to back up that theory? The alternative theory that busses are undependable and low-status is more plausible to me.

Any data to back up that theory? The alternative theory that rail drives neighbourhood growth and has better long-term political safety is more plausible to me.

Not that I disagree but it's no less backed up than the theory you support.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#160

Post by sampo »

bit_logic wrote: post #109

The true solution to LA traffic will never happen. And that solution is buses. But not the current underfunded system that barely limps along. A massive number of buses, like 5x the current number. And combined with tolls for cars to get cars off the road. The large number of buses is critical because it greatly reduces wait time between transfers. It also allows adding express bus lines between major areas. But buse…

> [rail] will always have the last mile issue

That is true only for heavy rail (commuter trains). But light rail (trams, or perhaps called streetcars in American English) can have stops as often as buses.

Here is a tram in Karlsruhe, Germany: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3470/3906930335_f3b2e209c2.jp...

Here are some in Helsinki, Finland: http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/47004637.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_jhbBeEkiyc/maxresdefault.jpg

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