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To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

latimes.com

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Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#131

Post by Nav_Panel »

bit_logic wrote: post #109

The true solution to LA traffic will never happen. And that solution is buses. But not the current underfunded system that barely limps along. A massive number of buses, like 5x the current number. And combined with tolls for cars to get cars off the road. The large number of buses is critical because it greatly reduces wait time between transfers. It also allows adding express bus lines between major areas. But buse…

> the bad reputation of buses

Buses have a bad reputation compared to other modes of transit because they're so easily re-routable. A political whim could shut down a whole bus route in a day, leaving commuters stranded. Rail signals long-term investment, and neighborhoods will grow around rail because they can guarantee it'll be there for years to come.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#132

Post by l1ambda »

zhoujianfu wrote: post #55

I really, really hope this happens to all of LA's freeways (or really all highways in the world)! It'd be cool if they could even do different pricing for different lanes (e.g. Left lane is $X/mi, 2nd lane is .6X/mi, 3rd lane is .3X, the rest are free). I also wonder what the algorithm is they use for pricing. I remember reading something about the 110/10 HOT lanes that they were targeting no slower than 45 mph or so…

This is what is done in Minnesota. Pricing is dynamically adjusted every 3 minutes to keep traffic flowing at a minimum of 45mph (in practice more like 60+mph). When there is more traffic, the toll is priced higher. Electronic sensors monitor the traffic density and tolls are changed every three minutes. The best part is, it works!

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#133

Post by antimatter »

Does anyone know if there are any tax benefits to companies who allow telecommuting in LA? I used to deal with 2 hours of LA traffic per day for my commute and it was absolutely soul crushing. My current company allows telecommuting and even though I'm only 18 miles away, it's a blessing to not to have to deal with LA traffic on a daily basis anymore.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#134

Post by l1ambda »

bit_logic wrote: post #109

The true solution to LA traffic will never happen. And that solution is buses. But not the current underfunded system that barely limps along. A massive number of buses, like 5x the current number. And combined with tolls for cars to get cars off the road. The large number of buses is critical because it greatly reduces wait time between transfers. It also allows adding express bus lines between major areas. But buse…

Well, buses and rail attack the congestion problem on the demand side, while tolls attack the problem on the supply side. So they're really complementary.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#135

Post by remarkEon »

dublinben wrote: post #118
remarkEon wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: most zones in LA County require developers to build parking on a per-bedroom basis, so they tend to build ~2.5 stalls per unit, and most of the time that ends up being subterranean. That'll add ~$100k in development costs per unit right off the bat. They can sell the stalls individually (I believe) but because of the economics of the market it just doesn't make sense to build anything but luxury. That one r…

Residential (and commercial) parking minimums need to be abolished. Set parking maximums if you must impose some rules, and then allow the market to settle on appropriate amount of parking for a new development.

I'm sure there's some research on this somewhere, but parking minimums have got to be one of the most distortive policies to ever emerge in urban planning.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#136

Post by l1ambda »

Asturaz wrote: post #34

LOL the same arguments where used in Sweden, Stockholm and Gothenburg, worked for a few months, the traffic is worse again. It was just a great lie for the the public to finance other prestige projects.

That just means they aren't pricing it properly.

I would still argue that prices should be set however high whereas to eliminate congestion, even it is seems "too high", simply because there is a limit to how many lanes can be constructed and no amount of lanes can eliminate congestion due to induced demand. Then we must allow market forces to occur such that development and lifestyle patterns change, which takes time. Might as well bite the bullet now.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#137

Post by uberduber »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #69
r00fus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should also consider the concept of mass transit? The increased likelihood of injury or death from increased transit time in automobiles alone is a health hazard.

LA is getting better with mass transit. The problem is it's not running 24 hours. It shuts down around 1am so you it's not really good for doing things at night like in NYC. Also, there's a TON of crazy people riding, literal homeless crazy people, or kind of thuggish people. There needs to be some sort of loitering code enforcement on the train along with more security. I feel uncomfortable as a dude, I bet women fe…

This. The homeless crazy problem has gotten much worse with the introduction of spice. They were much more harmless before but now you don't know when one will just start stabbing you without warning.

Also doesn't help that now everyone has expensive cell phones which attract thieves.

Once I was telling my friend about how I saw a woman pass out and start seizing on the subway at 5pm on a weekday. I pressed the emergency call button and people were all staring daggers at me, how dare I delay the train. My friend then said he had the same experience at 11pm at night and he was worried about physical violence.

It also doesn't help that the sheriffs only bother to stand at the turnstiles checking tickets and if you want to evade the fare, you just can just run.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#138

Post by l1ambda »

endianswap wrote: post #13

Aren't tolls like this an incredibly regressive tax that further hurts the poor?

The notion that road pricing is a regressive tax on the poor smacks of elitism. The hidden message seems to be "poor people don't have anywhere important to be." But lower income people were surveyed an they in fact desired road pricing just as much--if not more than--any other population segment because of the need to efficiently travel to multiple jobs and daycare sites efficiently, for instance.

It reminds me of the "poor people shouldn't have nice things" superiority complex that breeds thoughts like "poor people shouldn't buy smartphones and flatscreens!", when those things are quite inexpensive compared to actual ongoing expenses of rent and food. And there are many factors other than road pricing, such as cost of vehicle, fuel, and parking.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#139

Post by bit_logic »

felipellrocha wrote: post #119
bit_logic wrote: post #109

The true solution to LA traffic will never happen. And that solution is buses. But not the current underfunded system that barely limps along. A massive number of buses, like 5x the current number. And combined with tolls for cars to get cars off the road. The large number of buses is critical because it greatly reduces wait time between transfers. It also allows adding express bus lines between major areas. But buse…

That'd be ideal... But while the data says "more public transport", ideology is pushing the other way, and nowadays I feel like people adhere more to ideology than data.

I think there's some good signs here in LA. People know the situation is bad and we need more public transport. During the last election, a new measure passed to increase sales tax to fund more rail. Tax measures here require 66% to pass and it's kind of incredible that many people want to increase their taxes. It shows how dire the situation is and people here recognize it.

The direction for the metro here is massive investment in more rail. But to really fully utilize that, they need to fix the first/last mile issue. They are trying with bike sharing, more dense housing, etc. But those are too slow and just don't have enough impact. LA doesn't have to be a car city, but it will always be a road city. We need to work on connecting that road network to the rail. Buses could've been the solution, but won't happen due to bad reputation. Uber/Lyft could try with their car pooling service, but there's a conflict of interest working with rail because it decreases revenue for them since rail would take a big chunk of the distance traveled. Short distance carpooling is a potential good solution and I hope some startup here or the metro does something about this. This kind of first/last mile carpool + rail solution also has potential in other cities that are investing in rail (like Seattle, Denver, etc.). If it works well, it could become the model for transportation in US cities.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#140

Post by wutbrodo »

jessriedel wrote: post #38
P3R3 wrote: post #10

The article falsely assumes that the HOV lane has spare capacity. During rush hour here all lanes are equally clogged, and sometimes the HOV lane is actually slower than the other 4 lanes. The only way to fix LA traffic with current infrastructure is self driving car pools. If/when they can get to the point in which they are safer than normal drivers, and safe for the riders (crime inside of self driving cars) LA tra…

True ride-sharing could also help, and sooner than self-driving cars. Uber and Lyft talked about matching departing commuters in real-time, which would greatly reduce the inflexibility that makes traditional carpooling so unpleasant. I'm not sure why that never took off.

I've taken Uberpool for longish distances around LA (mostly between ~Beverly Hills and the Valley), and it suuuuucks. Having to get off the freeway and get back on to pick up people adds a ton of time to commutes that aren't that long from the LA perspective.
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