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To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

latimes.com

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Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#51

Post by pavel_lishin »

jessriedel wrote: post #38
P3R3 wrote: post #10

The article falsely assumes that the HOV lane has spare capacity. During rush hour here all lanes are equally clogged, and sometimes the HOV lane is actually slower than the other 4 lanes. The only way to fix LA traffic with current infrastructure is self driving car pools. If/when they can get to the point in which they are safer than normal drivers, and safe for the riders (crime inside of self driving cars) LA tra…

True ride-sharing could also help, and sooner than self-driving cars. Uber and Lyft talked about matching departing commuters in real-time, which would greatly reduce the inflexibility that makes traditional carpooling so unpleasant. I'm not sure why that never took off.

I'd guess because people would rather have the certainty of getting to work in 1.5 hours, rather than wait for a stranger to pick them in a semi-determined block of time (or pick up a stranger in the same) for a 1 hour commute.

Waiting and hoping that the person who promised to pick you up will actually do so seems annoying and nerve-wracking. "Sorry, boss, I know I'm late again, but a complete stranger was 30 minutes late picking me up today, and then decided to stop for donuts on the way to work."

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#52

Post by mlinksva »

endianswap wrote: post #13

Aren't tolls like this an incredibly regressive tax that further hurts the poor?

Less so than existing mechanisms for paying for roads http://www.its.ucla.edu/infographic-road-pricing/

Added: that's exactly what the article links to, oops. I read the article in reader mode (because it blocks adblockers) and failed to notice.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#53

Post by maloney »

endianswap wrote: post #13

Aren't tolls like this an incredibly regressive tax that further hurts the poor?

This is double speak, charging someone to use something is not a tax.

The fee to ride the bus/train is not called a tax, why would this be any different?

Roads need to stop being subsidized, it's the only thing that's going to give mass transit a chance to actually compete.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#54

Post by flat6turbo »

kirykl wrote: post #18
myowncrapulence wrote: post #3

Imagine how much more expensive living in LA will be. Instead of fixing their god awful public transit (like NYC) they want to punish people for using the only reliable mode of transportation?

The metro isn't that bad. I commuted from Hollywood to Torrance by metro/bus daily for a few years. The metro fare cost me more than gas actually but staying off the 110 was golden.

nobody outside of LA knows that there's a functioning metro now.

i see no real point in trying to convince them otherwise, since... you know, they don't live here.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#55

Post by zhoujianfu »

I really, really hope this happens to all of LA's freeways (or really all highways in the world)!

It'd be cool if they could even do different pricing for different lanes (e.g. Left lane is $X/mi, 2nd lane is .6X/mi, 3rd lane is .3X, the rest are free).

I also wonder what the algorithm is they use for pricing. I remember reading something about the 110/10 HOT lanes that they were targeting no slower than 45 mph or something? It might be smarter to target max revenue instead though. Like every 30 minutes you raise or lower the price depending if you made more or less money in the last 30 minutes after doing the same thing.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#56

Post by soheil »

What about the poor? LA for most parts, against popular belief, is a pretty homogenous city when it comes to wealth, sure you have Beverly Hills and Malibu but LA is so vast that majority of it doesn't feel secluded. Now if you toll the non-wealthy (the rich will not notice the toll) you remove that dynamic, that headline should really say let's remove more poor people from the freeways.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#57

Post by criddell »

tschellenbach wrote: post #19

I doubt this has any effect, rich people don't care, poor people can't afford to move somewhere else. Public transport is the only effective approach to reducing the congestion.

Public transportation should always be improving, but so should the road system.

> Public transport is the only effective approach

I think that is going to change very soon. If you had some lanes dedicated to self-driving cars, that convoy could vastly increase traffic density.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#58

Post by r00fus »

endianswap wrote: post #13

Aren't tolls like this an incredibly regressive tax that further hurts the poor?

The bastion of socialism, France, has mostly-toll freeways (they also have non-toll routes nationale and routes départementales in addition to more local routes communales)

Of course, they do also actually plan their roadways nationally and region-wide whereas in the US, it seems "city planning" is an oxymoron.

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#59

Post by cosinetau »

Asturaz wrote: post #34

LOL the same arguments where used in Sweden, Stockholm and Gothenburg, worked for a few months, the traffic is worse again. It was just a great lie for the the public to finance other prestige projects.

I would love to see some reporting on this statement

Re: To fix L.A.'s traffic, we need tolls

#60

Post by prodikl »

soheil wrote: post #56

What about the poor? LA for most parts, against popular belief, is a pretty homogenous city when it comes to wealth, sure you have Beverly Hills and Malibu but LA is so vast that majority of it doesn't feel secluded. Now if you toll the non-wealthy (the rich will not notice the toll) you remove that dynamic, that headline should really say let's remove more poor people from the freeways.

he touched on that

> the most common complaint being: "Oh, so only rich people can drive?"

> This critique ignores the fact that working Americans often suffer the most severely from the impacts of poor mobility. Working-class parents who are late to pick up their kids from day care, for example, often pay severe financial penalties. Having the option to reach their destination quickly could actually save them money. In fact, experience with dynamic tolling in the United States has shown that people of all income levels use these lanes. This objection also ignores just how inequitable and dysfunctional our current system is. Tolls may disproportionately burden the poor, but so do sales taxes, gas taxes and every other way we pay for roads.

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