Trump Sends Pharma Stocks Down with New Tweet on Drug Prices • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump Sends Pharma Stocks Down with New Tweet on Drug Prices

#31

Post by deepnotderp » Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

StClaire wrote: post #17

deepnotderp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is great, we're trying everything except what the real problem is! Look at the Martin shkreli situation, there was another one like that before too. How did patents play a role there? High profit margins are not a bad thing, as long as people can still afford them. What we need is the proper type of regulations, I agree we need to streamline the fda process, but that alone is not going to solve things. There are…

I'm not saying we can fix all the problems with drug prices by fixing the patent system. Shitheads (am I allowed to say that?) like Shkreli will always do shitty things. But those cases don't drive most drug prices

The problem is that those people control an important and ever increasing number of drugs. And many pharma companies are no exception.

Re: Trump Sends Pharma Stocks Down with New Tweet on Drug Prices

#32

Post by tdb7893 » Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

lukasm wrote: post #22

kar1181 wrote: post #12

Having lived in both the UK and US I find the cost of medicines very hard to understand here. For example in the UK I can buy a ventolin inhaler for £10 over the counter (if I went to the Doctor it would be free). But in the US, an inhaler costs me $60 (with insurance). Why is it that much more expensive here?

In UK government has almost a monopoly for buying drugs, so they have a leverage in negotiation and there is a lower overhead with paper work. Americans subsidize drugs for the rest of the world.

Fun fact: this situation is also called monopsony (i.e. when there is only one buyer in the market)

Re: Trump Sends Pharma Stocks Down with New Tweet on Drug Prices

#33

Post by arethuza » Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 5:23 PM UTC

lukasm wrote: post #22

kar1181 wrote: post #12

Having lived in both the UK and US I find the cost of medicines very hard to understand here. For example in the UK I can buy a ventolin inhaler for £10 over the counter (if I went to the Doctor it would be free). But in the US, an inhaler costs me $60 (with insurance). Why is it that much more expensive here?

In UK government has almost a monopoly for buying drugs, so they have a leverage in negotiation and there is a lower overhead with paper work. Americans subsidize drugs for the rest of the world.

"I can buy a ventolin inhaler for £10 over the counter"

Ventolin inhalers are apparently available over the counter in pharmacies in the UK - where does the government enter into that?

Re: Trump Sends Pharma Stocks Down with New Tweet on Drug Prices

#34

Post by perseusprime11 » Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 5:23 PM UTC

StClaire wrote: post #7

It costs a quarter to manufacture each pill but the manufacturers charge several dollars for that pill. But they don't just price gouge. Drug companies need to file patents on their drug almost as soon as they sketch they come up with drug. From there they need at least 8 years to get through the FDAs approval process, so the manufacturers don't get nearly as much exclusive time with their IP as other industries. (Th…

Still does not address how generic drugs with the same chemicals cost a fraction of those from Big Pharma.

Re: Trump Sends Pharma Stocks Down with New Tweet on Drug Prices

#35

Post by Houshalter » Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 5:24 PM UTC

kar1181 wrote: post #12

Having lived in both the UK and US I find the cost of medicines very hard to understand here. For example in the UK I can buy a ventolin inhaler for £10 over the counter (if I went to the Doctor it would be free). But in the US, an inhaler costs me $60 (with insurance). Why is it that much more expensive here?

Not inhalers, but here is an interesting article on epipens https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/08/29/reverse-voxsplaining-d...

Europe has 8 different competing companies that make epipens, but the US only has only approved 2. And the second one has to be specifically prescribed or you get the more expensive name brand. And the company that makes it apparently gives bribes to generic manufacturers to keep them from competing. And spends lots lobbying congress to let them keep doing this.

Re: Trump Sends Pharma Stocks Down with New Tweet on Drug Prices

#36

Post by ceejayoz » Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 5:27 PM UTC

microcolonel wrote: post #27

deepnotderp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is great, we're trying everything except what the real problem is! Look at the Martin shkreli situation, there was another one like that before too. How did patents play a role there? High profit margins are not a bad thing, as long as people can still afford them. What we need is the proper type of regulations, I agree we need to streamline the fda process, but that alone is not going to solve things. There are…

I've not seen a case that what Shkreli did reduced the availability of his niche drug to patients.

That's a strawman.

Yes, most patients likely retained their access to the drug. The issue is more that we all wind up paying higher premiums so Shkreli can line his pockets with inflated proceeds and no alternatives.

Re: Trump Sends Pharma Stocks Down with New Tweet on Drug Prices

#37

Post by FireBeyond » Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 5:27 PM UTC

lukasm wrote: post #22

kar1181 wrote: post #12

Having lived in both the UK and US I find the cost of medicines very hard to understand here. For example in the UK I can buy a ventolin inhaler for £10 over the counter (if I went to the Doctor it would be free). But in the US, an inhaler costs me $60 (with insurance). Why is it that much more expensive here?

In UK government has almost a monopoly for buying drugs, so they have a leverage in negotiation and there is a lower overhead with paper work. Americans subsidize drugs for the rest of the world.

Yeah. That's not so accurate.

Top 10 pharma companies, 5/10 are US (2 UK, 2 Swiss, 1 French).

4 of the top 6 for profit margins (from 43%(!) to 19%) are US (Merck is the only outlier, 9th, at 10%).

4 of the top 5 for Sales and Marketing Spend (both on raw dollars and as a percentage of revenue) are US.

3 of the bottom 5 for R&D spend (as a percentage of revenue) are US.

I think I see a little fat that can be trimmed in the name of our so-called subsidization...

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28212223

Re: Trump Sends Pharma Stocks Down with New Tweet on Drug Prices

#38

Post by FireBeyond » Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 5:30 PM UTC

jostmey wrote: post #23

kar1181 wrote: post #12

Having lived in both the UK and US I find the cost of medicines very hard to understand here. For example in the UK I can buy a ventolin inhaler for £10 over the counter (if I went to the Doctor it would be free). But in the US, an inhaler costs me $60 (with insurance). Why is it that much more expensive here?

The US pays an unfair burden to cover the cost of developing new drugs. That said, many drug companies seem more concerned with selling drugs that are barely better than a placebo and have cut back on research efforts.

Not really. The top two spending R&D pharma firms are the Swiss Novartis, and Hoffman-La Roche.

J&J, despite having 40% higher revenues ($70B vs $50B) spent nearly $2B less ($8.2B versus $9.9B) on R&D.

Re: Trump Sends Pharma Stocks Down with New Tweet on Drug Prices

#39

Post by ceejayoz » Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 5:31 PM UTC

am_i_down wrote: post #9

vkou wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like, uh, draining the swamp?

Hard to imagine how that could be done in one month.

> Hard to imagine how that could be done in one month.

It's especially hard to imagine when the person claiming to be draining the swamp starts a new biz named "Swamp Filling and Expansion, LLC".

Re: Trump Sends Pharma Stocks Down with New Tweet on Drug Prices

#40

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Mar 07, 2017, 5:33 PM UTC

It's probably just a smokescreen to divide the attention of people concerned about healthcare between this distraction and the bill repealing the ACA, Medicaid, etc.