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Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

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Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#61

Post by ssully »

jameslk wrote: post #44
JoshTriplett wrote: post #14

If anyone reading this thread is interested: I would pay non-trivial amounts of money on a regular basis for a service that systematically worked to eliminate records like these (and the sources they draw from), as well as chasing down sources of junk mail and the lists they ultimately draw from. The value would depend on effectiveness, and on the degree to which the service clearly reported exactly what they did. Ca…

I've considered working on this problem from a business standpoint, but I couldn't figure out a good business model for it. I don't think too many people will pay a monthly fee to have their information removed from these services. My guess is that they would sign up for a month and after their information has been removed, immediately cancel their subscription until they needed to do it again. And a yearly fee seeme…

People, like myself, pay a monthly fee for credit monitoring services. A lot of these services will identify if personal information of yours is publicly available on the web.

I only know of Instant Checkmate because my fiancé uses Mint Credit Monitoring and they notified her that her info was available on that site. I promptly helped her opt out of the site. I would have loved if Mint just had a 'Help me purge my info from this site' button, because I felt dirty just having to confirm my Fiancés info was on that site and then go through their process to remove it.

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#62

Post by dsp1234 »

mehrdadn wrote: post #27
jonas21 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more specific on what type of information you're talking about?

Political Party? Views & Opinions? Relatives? Education history even if it's outside the country? Check out all the categories, here's [1] a random example. And yes, I know all of this information exists out there somewhere (resumes, mailing lists, social sites, whatever); my question is who is the first layer aggregating them from these sources. [1] https://www.mylife.com/john-smith

who is the first layer aggregating them from these sources.

You clearly understand that you could get this data from various places, but maybe you don't understand how relatively easy this data is to procure (physical presence requests being the hardest). Why do you think there exists a "first layer" as some distinct class of business, and not a large number of primary source gathers, and a large number of aggregators.

There are a lot of business models here, and I think you may be underestimating the complexity. Like you want X number of companies to point the finger at, but that's not reality.

Instead, there are at least 3 axes. Does the company buy data from someone else, do they gather it in house, or both. Does the company sell data to other companies, or not. Does the company use data themselves. All of those combinations are going to be present.

1.) A company that generates it's own data, but never sells, and uses it itself

2.) A company that generates it's own data, but buys additional data, sells it's own gathered data, and uses the data itself

3.) A company that buy it's data, sells that data, and never uses the itself

etc for all of the rest of the combinations

I can say that within my sector, my company used to purchase data from a data broker (not PII, or anything you mention, but industry specific), then decided it was too expensive, and started gather our own data. Now we use the data we gather, and also sell it. Suggesting that there is some "first layer", and that you might be able to identify them all, is just a basic misunderstanding of the entire business of data brokerage.

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#63

Post by mehrdadn »

trelliscoded wrote: post #53

I saw a great talk by a private investigator at a security conference on this topic, and did some research after the talk to confirm what he was saying. The short version is what you're asking for is going to be an uphill battle. Data aggregation companies don't want to disclose their sources because their services are often used by debt collectors and other organizations who want to find people who don't want to be…

Thank you for the legal information! That was enlightening.

The one question I have remaining though is: when these companies pop up, how do they know whom to buy your information from if there's no list and nobody tells them?

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#64

Post by pc86 »

mehrdadn wrote: post #24
blackbagboys wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such public list. Most of these companies are privately held, their methods are trade secrets, and there is no real form of legal recourse. Your best bet would be to buy a book like this: https://www.amazon.com/Hiding-Internet-Eliminating-Personal-... and follow the recommendations, but even that is only likely to be half-effective. Much of the public information is mined from sources like credit headers,…

> There is no such public list. Most of these companies are privately held, their methods are trade secrets, and there is no real form of legal recourse. How can there not be a public list of these data miners? When e.g. a court needs to control someone's information surely they know who these people are and they can let them know? Is there a secret list in every courthouse or something? Or when someone wants to star…

You grossly underestimate the scope and power of the United States judicial system, which does not ever have a need or desire to "control someone's information."

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#65

Post by pc86 »

mehrdadn wrote: post #52
twblalock wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When e.g. a court needs to control someone's information surely they know who these people are and they can let them know? Is there a secret list in every courthouse or something? The courts don't control information in that way.

That's surprising. So what happens when there is a high profile case and the court fears for the jurors' lives? Or the case itself involves someone whose life will be in danger afterwards? If anybody can find out where these people live then they're toast. The courts have to suppress the information legally somehow, right? If not the old information, at least they need some protection against mining of new informatio…

> So what happens when there is a high profile case and the court fears for the jurors' lives?

Jurors' identities are not generally a secret.[0] There are exceptions, but those exceptions do not extend to wiping that person's data from things like pharmacy and gas station reward card databases.

Honestly your entire premise shows a lack of understanding of how the criminal justice system works.

> Are you literally saying they have no way to order all the first-level companies to stop sharing data on someone?

Sue all of them individually, win each case, and have them ordered to stop collecting data on you. Something tell me this is tantamount to "don't use a computer or a credit card. Ever."

[0] http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/public-access-...

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#66

Post by uiri »

bobzibub wrote: post #58

Would it be possible to copyright our names and use DMCA takedown notices? Just a random thought.

Names do not meet the threshold of originality test[0]. Beyond that, your parents would be the copyright holder until their death when you would inherit it via their estate.

They are potentially covered under trademark if you have a brand in a specific industry and others are using your name or a similar name in a way that could cause consumer confusion.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_of_originality unrelated: the threshold for code is usually around 15 lines.

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#67

Post by pc86 »

criddell wrote: post #26

Last year I was getting constant calls and snail mail about buying an extended car warranty on a car that I no longer own. I asked the place where I bought my car if they sell that information and they claimed not to. So where do these sleazy companies get that data? The DMV? This year, I'm getting two or three calls every week about a buying a home security system and monitoring. I don't understand why these calls a…

Vehicle registration is most likely public record in your state.[0] You can't push a button and stop all of these calls because there are dozens (probably tens of dozens) of companies that search and process public records and other data sets then sell that information to various companies.

[0] http://www2.westlaw.com/CustomerSupport/Knowledgebase/Techni...

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#68

Post by dsp1234 »

mehrdadn wrote: post #35
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but where do they get their data? Are they rolling their own JS API that developers roll into each page? I certainly have never put any of that into any site I've made or seen.

> Right, but where do they get their data? Yeah, I'm basically looking for the companies whose answer to this question is " by actually mining the data ourselves from your doctor, grocery store, Facebook, etc.".

Why do you think it works this way and not the other way around as well? Grocery stores shop their data around to see who will pay the most for it. A person who is out of work goes to the local courthouse and requests a bunch of records, compiles them into a spreadsheet and then cold (or warm with something like LinkedIn) calls to see if anyone is interested in the data. An online quiz company is going out of business, and as part of their bankruptcy settlement, they sell off their database of answers at auction. etc, etc, etc.

As pointed out elsewhere, it's a marketplace, and as such there are going to be buyers and sellers. Some of those sellers are going to be primary sources themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#69

Post by accountface »

It sounds like based on the other comments that there's no way to track down one sole source because there are so many varying from public records to machine learning...

That being said, is there a simple way to better obscure yourself? Like using a business name and a PO box instead of your personal name when it comes to bills/addresses?

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#70

Post by r00fus »

NickBusey wrote: post #38

Small tip: At the grocery store or anywhere else with a rewards account linked to a phone number, rather than signing up for one just use (Your Local Area Code)-867-5309 The number almost always exists and is a valid account. Get the discount, don't get tracked. Thanks, Tommy Tutone.

Thanks - I always used my friends' parents old number - so someone I didn't know - this would be even better.
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