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Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

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Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the reply. Can you actually give some kind of a list though? The entire problem here is everyone explains the how but no one is willing to explain the who . I certainly understand it's "multiple sources", I'm asking who are these sources I keep hearing about. There can't be nearly as many sources as there are sites who buy from them. If you'd like to not name the company you worked for yourself then cou…

There is no such public list. Most of these companies are privately held, their methods are trade secrets, and there is no real form of legal recourse. Your best bet would be to buy a book like this: https://www.amazon.com/Hiding-Internet-Eliminating-Personal-... and follow the recommendations, but even that is only likely to be half-effective. Much of the public information is mined from sources like credit headers,…

I have a friend who is super paranoid about privacy stuff. He was even able to get his utility bills to use a PO box rather than his home address, which he said was extremely difficult.

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no such public list. Most of these companies are privately held, their methods are trade secrets, and there is no real form of legal recourse. How can there not be a public list of these data miners? When e.g. a court needs to control someone's information surely they know who these people are and they can let them know? Is there a secret list in every courthouse or something? Or when someone wants to star…

> When e.g. a court needs to control someone's information surely they know who these people are and they can let them know? Is there a secret list in every courthouse or something? The courts don't control information in that way.

That's surprising. So what happens when there is a high profile case and the court fears for the jurors' lives? Or the case itself involves someone whose life will be in danger afterwards? If anybody can find out where these people live then they're toast. The courts have to suppress the information legally somehow, right? If not the old information, at least they need some protection against mining of new information after the subjects move or change their names, no?

Are you literally saying they have no way to order all the first-level companies to stop sharing data on someone?

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#53
I saw a great talk by a private investigator at a security conference on this topic, and did some research after the talk to confirm what he was saying.

The short version is what you're asking for is going to be an uphill battle. Data aggregation companies don't want to disclose their sources because their services are often used by debt collectors and other organizations who want to find people who don't want to be found. If the sources were public knowledge, debtors could avoid them to escape debt collection agencies, for example.

The comprehensive list you're looking for doesn't exist. Each data aggregation company has a different list which is the result of many private agreements they have with their sources. If you want a list of the sources, you can't ask the data aggregators.

You can ask the sources themselves. Because you don't know who they are, you have to guess. Any company that puts a card in your wallet would be a good place to start. Under California Civil Code 1798.83, you can email companies and ask them to provide you with a list of all the direct marketing companies they sold your information to. Try making a request to your insurance agency.

1798.34 also allows you to ask California government agencies to provide you with an accounting of everyone they disclosed your information to. A 1798.34 request to the DMV should be a rich source of data providers.

There's also lists of companies involved in the data aggregation ecosystem in the consumer finance protection board's list of complaints:

https://data.consumerfinance.gov/dataset/Consumer-Complaints...

One surprising thing I found out during the talk is that pizza chains are a rich source of data for these companies. If you think about it, this makes perfect sense. The data includes a guaranteed link between a person, a place, payment information, and a phone number.

> when a court needs to order that someone's information be purged

I don't think this is a thing. A friend had to deal with a DV case and I got to see how all the legal machinery involved works. The court doesn't even bother trying to purge the victim's data when they move out and try to stay away from the abuser. The court simply moved the victim and the DV support organization told them to stay off social media and not to give the new address to anyone (including pizza places.)

That being said, the federal government does have a comprehensive list of all the agencies which are members of the federal privacy council. In theory, these agencies are supposed to have a data integrity board which provides oversight for any data they keep on Americans.

https://www.fpc.gov/federal-agencies/

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#54

For pre-employment screening, we had court runners literally sitting through the courthouses going through paper records for each candidate on an "ad-hoc" basis. Some companies do this in a more organized fashion by having a person just data enter ALL the records (like in North Carolina if I recall) and since they had this data, we just bought the company.

Pre employment screening is different though. They need your permission for a legal background check and of course they will do everything necessary to do it. I'm asking about the information that leaks without your permission.

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#55
If you have your own domain name with a wildcard, it's really helpful to enter: someservice@mydomain.com as your email. That way if it leaks you'll know who did it and can setup much more robust rules to block. I'll use the domain name as the main address so I remember which name goes to which site.

For physical address mailings, you can hyphenate (or use a middle name) as the service. So First Service-Last as the addressee name. While harder to setup "mail rules" for, at least you'll know who to never trust again.

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought was a court case database, not a personal information aggregator! +1 thank you!

LexisNexis provides all sorts of databases. I had an experience where I was shopping for car insurance, and just before I signed, my rate doubled from what was previously quoted by the same company. It turned out that a LexisNexis database had an erroneous record claiming I was at fault for an accident.

Wow! How did you find out it was LexisNexis? Did the insurance company just straight up tell you?

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#57
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political Party? Views & Opinions? Relatives? Education history even if it's outside the country? Check out all the categories, here's [1] a random example. And yes, I know all of this information exists out there somewhere (resumes, mailing lists, social sites, whatever); my question is who is the first layer aggregating them from these sources. [1] https://www.mylife.com/john-smith

Political party is fairly easy in the US via voter rolls for primary elections. Even if this list is held privately by the Party, they have an incentive to trade it for data about independent or undecided voters. Views & opinions are likely from member lists of organizations like the NRA. Again, these organizations will trade their data for valuable data on other people whom they want to reach. Relatives is pretty ea…

>> yes, I know all of this information exists out there somewhere (resumes, mailing lists, social sites, whatever); my question is who is the first layer aggregating them from these sources.

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#59
It pisses me off too. US is so concerned about privacy, yet a LOT of your private information is made public once you start opening bank accounts, buying real estate, sign up for gym, etc.

When I opened my first bank account they had a typo in my name, which I found out when I received my debit card. I asked them to fix it immediately, however, two to three weeks later I was already getting mail from stores addressed to the misspelled name.

When I was buying my first house I immediately started receiving mail from moving companies at my old address before I signed the closing. After I moved I got a lot of junk mail with other kinds of offers. I even started getting PHONE CALLS from a home monitoring/alarm company. When I asked them where they got my number they hang up.

It is like all the information is up for sale somewhere.

Re: Ask HN: Who really gives your personal info to Intelius, Instant Checkmate, etc?

#60
post #44

If anyone reading this thread is interested: I would pay non-trivial amounts of money on a regular basis for a service that systematically worked to eliminate records like these (and the sources they draw from), as well as chasing down sources of junk mail and the lists they ultimately draw from. The value would depend on effectiveness, and on the degree to which the service clearly reported exactly what they did. Ca…

I've considered working on this problem from a business standpoint, but I couldn't figure out a good business model for it. I don't think too many people will pay a monthly fee to have their information removed from these services. My guess is that they would sign up for a month and after their information has been removed, immediately cancel their subscription until they needed to do it again. And a yearly fee seeme…

I used to work for https://www.reputationdefender.com/privacy - that is (was) exactly their business model. One of the big selling points was the time savings, where it would take you 80 hours a week or some crazy number if you did it yourself, filling out forms and keeping up with all of the new services that aggregate and sell this stuff. Doing it once is great, but won't help you after that month - all of the same places that initially sent all your data in to the aggregators are just going to do it again next month, so you'll get a new record all over again.

They have largely pivoted since then, into a service primarily for reviews and feedback management. I don't have any insight into the quality of the existing service on either side.

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