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Google featured snippets are worse than fake news

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Re: Google featured snippets are worse than fake news

#141

Why is it that hard for engineers to rely on good old attribution? If every Google's featured snippet started its reply with "Breitbart says..." or "Trent Online, the leading Internet Newspaper in Nigeria said...", it wouldn't matter so much for those inevitable cases when the reply is taken straight from a white-supremacist or radical anarchist forum. The problem comes when the same reply is provided as "Google's tr…

Fully agree that Google could present cues related to from whom a snippet was received (for example, by putting the snippet in a speech bubble), along with "what others say" complementary/discourse links.

In fact, they should change their entire search result layout so as to add an "epistemological" (ie. related to how the presented result was obtained) knowledge dimension in the visual presentation, and enrich the search result with eg. links to employees, parent companies, and other known affiliations.

That would be a strong move and help fight fake reviews, astroturfing, and fake news campaigning. And it would be much easier to implement compared to strong AI, if the latter is possible at all. In any case, it would be much more useful than the "searched 3.123e8 pages in 0.3 ms" non-information we get now.

Not sure whether posts by verified/accredited people (real names) should be ranked higher in search results. Traditionally, hackers have preferred pseudonyms, and there are very good reasons to stay anonymous in oppressive regimes. OTOH, using pseudonyms/fake accounts at scale got us into the kind of political and other mass manipulation we have now.

Re: Google featured snippets are worse than fake news

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metrics are destroying the web. Once upon a time it was possible to identify "good" pages by how often they were linked - effectively crowd-sourcing the problem. Natural selection: sites have learned to manipulate the game and the crowd. Under pressure to optimize metrics that lead to SEO and better valuations, the internet is getting less useful from a user perspective. I don't want to watch a video/slideshow, downl…

What's strange is this is not at all a new problem, and Google has historically been quite good at fighting it. The original search engines ranked pages by their content. Naturally this led to gaming by including keywords (remember huge invisible sections of pages that just repeated keywords thousands of times?). Google's original PageRank algorithm was a complete breakthrough for this, almost completely disregarding…

I think a big problem now is that the sites are capable of tricking people. That is, if you have a "turing test" for reliable content website, blogspam.forums.net with 2000 backlinks and such obviously doesn't pass. On the other hand, Reuters.com does. But so does theonion, and Breitbart and random_russian_conservative_propoganda_site.us, and so it becomes a lot harder to differentiate the good from the bad without explicity curating by experts, because the sites can trick non-domain-expert humans, so what hope does a bot that hasn't tried to learn domain expertise of the topic have?

Re: Google featured snippets are worse than fake news

#143
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because prepending that doesn't solve the problem Google wants to solve: once Google figures out that you typed in a question, they want to give you the answer to your question. Not tell you what other people think the answer is. (I agree that it is broken in a lot of cases now, but prepending that is a very bad workaround).

> once Google figures out that you typed in a question, they want to give you the answer to your question And that's the problem that the article rightfully denounces. Having the answer to every question is not something that you can automate, not without strong AI. > Prepending that is a very bad workaround I strongly disagree; for me it's a very sensible thing to do - and in fact is how we do it in a social context…

> not without strong AI.

You might be right if Google wants to answer all questions ever, but they can just limit this feature to situations where they do know what the answer is (you already see this when you type in math, conversions between different units, etc).

> and in fact is how we do it in a social context ("I'm totally not making this shit up, I've read it in a scientific article / this morning newspaper / a tweet message").

That's not how I converse with people around me at all, I only talk about the source if there is some disbelieve about whether it is true.

----

When someone asks me for some information, I will answer and that is the context the person places me in. I won't tell that person "I heard this from Craig, he heard if from Judy and she was told by Bob, etc..". Google wants to become this person / context.

The whole idea is that you don't have to click / verify / think about the potential webpage, because Google has already ranked all webpages that mention your query, and it will only snippet the top one (which is the result Google thinks will most likely answer your question).

Adding the source is:

- extra noise (the user now needs to look at the text & look at who said it and determine whether it might be true or not). - easily spoofable: you either rely on some meta tag for an Author, which websites can spoof. Or on a URL, which will lead to people doing stuff like "nytimes.com.quotefromgoogle.com".

> The system should provide an escape hatch, and allow the user to be in control.

Below the snippet are the 10 links that you can still click, functionality available since the mid 90s.

> The user of an automated system should always be able to inspect how the system came to the provided result

Just click the top link?

Re: Google featured snippets are worse than fake news

#144
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, I really don't see how they can justify displaying other people's content. They did the work, but they don't get the clicks or ad revenue or even a chance to keep the user on the site. I wonder how Google would like it if someone launched a site that when you search, it doesn't display results from its own database, but perhaps just a selection of the best results from Google.

It is funny you say that. I remember when you would search for an answer, and a small answer would be included in the description under the link, so you wouldn't have to click on it. Then they started to go away, because no one was clicking on them because they didn't need to. Now you rarely get the answer without clicking on it. So Google has made the internet worse.

>So Google has made the internet worse.

By not including the answer?

Or, by including the answer and putting the sites that gave reliable answers out of business in the first place?

Re: Google featured snippets are worse than fake news

#145

Google is a search engine for finding webpages, not facts. Thats where this "fake" news story should end. This is not a political problem, its a societal one, and you are barking up the wrong tree. Wikipedia is a free online encyclopedia, created and edited by volunteers around the world. It is not authoritative, and anyone who treats it as such, should be educated to the facts of what it is, and is not. Just because…

Google is presenting the fake content as factual. Google is asserting the truth and putting its own brand behind the "truthiness" of the fake page. That is the line that has been crossed.

No, they aren't. They are extracting a quote from a source that seems directly related to what you search for. The only difference between this and a regular search result is that it comes in a grey box, and the text is extracted via deep learning rather than pulling the first sentence or some html metatags.

Interpreting a grey box as "truth" is entirely on you.

Re: Google featured snippets are worse than fake news

#146

Google is a search engine for finding webpages, not facts. Thats where this "fake" news story should end. This is not a political problem, its a societal one, and you are barking up the wrong tree. Wikipedia is a free online encyclopedia, created and edited by volunteers around the world. It is not authoritative, and anyone who treats it as such, should be educated to the facts of what it is, and is not. Just because…

> Google is a search engine for finding webpages, not facts.

How can you justify that claim? It seems pretty obvious to me that it's trying to be both. Search for "current time utc" and tell me Google is just a search engine for finding webpages.

Re: Google featured snippets are worse than fake news

#147
post #120

I've also wondered why Google isn't held responsible for publishing libelous claims and hoaxes as facts. Examples: Is Hillary Clinton a pedophile? https://www.google.com/search?q=is+hillary+clinton+a+pedophi... Is John Travolta gay? https://www.google.com/search?q=is+john+travolta+gay Does Lil Wayne have HIV? https://www.google.com/search?q=does+lil+wayne+have+hiv Perhaps worse, this is what drives Google Home's ques…

Because they can't be under US law.

> No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230_of_the_Communica...

Re: Google featured snippets are worse than fake news

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is presenting the fake content as factual. Google is asserting the truth and putting its own brand behind the "truthiness" of the fake page. That is the line that has been crossed.

No, they aren't. They are extracting a quote from a source that seems directly related to what you search for. The only difference between this and a regular search result is that it comes in a grey box, and the text is extracted via deep learning rather than pulling the first sentence or some html metatags. Interpreting a grey box as "truth" is entirely on you.

The problem is that it uses largely the same treatment as it does for actual facts.

In other words, I don't think there's anything wrong with trusting Google when you search for "25 divided by 5", "33rd president of the US", etc. But when Google extends that response structure to things that, on further research, are not established fact, it shares some blame in spreading false knowledge.

Re: Google featured snippets are worse than fake news

#149
We ask questions now because we can get "an answer" so quickly.

I would have liked the prof to push back on the student and say Why do you want to know?

The answer is yes. Now what?

The answer is no. Now what?

Are you asking for what reason? What will you do with a yes answer and a no answer?

Then I would break into a short lesson in decision making. That decisions are just based on future probabilities. Future probabilities are based partially in the questions you answer.

If the question is academic?purposes only then good... But I believe we ask dumb questions just because we can and get an answer.

Start by not asking questions where the answer is useless.

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