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Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

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Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#181

Post by 746F7475 »

grub5000 wrote: post #165
otterley wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cheaper and faster, broadly Presumably the author has already purchased the Mac, in which case, s/he's already obtaining the benefit from that purchase. To rationally justify the replacement cost (which is not just the cost of the hardware itself, but the opportunity cost of learning the new platform, purchasing new software, etc.), the benefits of switching have to be greater. It's those benefits--not necessarily…

Gaming, VR, upcoming 3D and Cortana are a few reasons I can think of why someone might pick Windows over MacOS. I think you're discounting the performance aspect as well - if workload X is too slow on the fastest mac, it may well still run on a windows machine since they can be specced higher. Cost isn't a factor for everyone - sometimes you literally just need the fastest possible machine, in which case Windows can…

>Gaming, VR, upcoming 3D

Am I missing something or does this seem like one thing? Or is there use case for VR that isn't gaming? And what is 'upcoming 3D' exactly?

>if workload X is too slow on the fastest mac, it may well still run on a windows machine

Can't argue with that, but what are such workloads if you are not game developer? Wouldn't cluster of Linux servers always be a better choice? Unless of course you are die hard Windows fan.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#182

Post by angry-hacker »

cube2222 wrote: post #161
angry-hacker wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that I still had to do 3 hours worth of updates and restarts after fresh install is beyond me. Install (only) MS Word - - another cycle of updates. Restart, check updates, more updates!!! It's just insane. Why does it download Outlook spam filter update, 100mb?I don't have Outlook installed, I only wanted freaking MS Word.

What version of windows are you on? (10 or 7)?

Just did fresh W10 install a few weeks ago and had to go through that pain.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#183

Post by UnbornSoul »

malchow wrote: post #155

I never had a Mac from age 5 to age 18, despite being very interested in computers. Only PCs. Built them myself. In 2007, at the age of 20, I bought my first Mac. I've bought Macs biannually since then. I have staffed whole companies with Macs. And I too just purchased my first Windows PC in ten years. My new 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar hangs on resume. Whether a USB-C connected external monitor will work or not…

Wait what, flash. Does that still exists. I thought we buried that back in 2015.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#184

Post by Turing_Machine »

addicted wrote: post #28
coldtea wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Swift appeared in IOS first Which makes perfect sense. We talk to our phones all the time anyway, and hands-free is crucial. For desktop, not so much. > APFS (not AFS) is the default in IOS, and still in feature preview and pretty unusable in 10.12. It's "expected" it will be released for desktop in 2017 Which makes perfect sense. A constrained environment without an exposed filesystem like iOS is easier to convert…

I agree it makes sense. But it also indicates that Apple isn't really designing for the Mac as the author points out. I mean, Siri is the biggest feature Apple is touting for Sierra ( http://www.apple.com/macos/sierra/ ). And as you point out, it's something that doesn't even make all that much sense on the Mac.

I may be in the minority here, but I find Siri just about as annoying as the old Clippit thingie in Microsoft Office. It's the first thing I turn off.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#185

Post by arkades »

Razengan wrote: post #152
arkades wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UI remains a convoluted Escher'esque nightmare. Comments like this make it hard to take any side of the discussion seriously. /Neither/ of the OSes are "Escher'esque nightmare[s]." My elderly mother can kludge her way through both of them, more or less reliably - admittedly, with more trouble than using her phone, but not a lot more. Nothing that a tech-illiterate can reasonably use on a day-to-day basis qualif…

> Comments like this make it hard to take any side of the discussion seriously. /Neither/ of the OSes are "Escher'esque nightmare[s]." • macOS Finder: http://i.imgur.com/9Y5hK0e.png • Windows Explorer: http://i.imgur.com/ef7CnJ4.png Alright. Maybe not nightmarish, but one of these IS objectively more convoluted than the other. Let's start with something simple: WHY does the "Options" button on the Windows Explorer Ri…

Perhaps you're failing to view things from the perspective of the average user?

I see the MacOS Finder and see unlabelled icons. My elderly folks are terrible at remembering what various icons do, and what error messages are for, etc. I've trained them to pause and read the words on the toolbar, read the words on the window, etc. as they're generally self-explanatory.

So the finder that is more convoluted for a more proficient user, is the one that my folks can actually more reasonably navigate.

Okay, your criticism is on point: the Explorer Options button has a redundant click. To me, that would matter if I ever used anything other than keyboard navigation. To my mother, father, and sister, "yay! It's f'n labeled!"

My nieces don't give a damn either way, because they're too young to care about one unnecessary click, and they don't forget what the icons mean.

Your point isn't wrong, it's just not that clear-cut an issue when dealing with different people with different levels of proficiency and needs.

But the fact that we're down to "labels vs. reasonably intuitive icons, plus or minus a redundant click" suggests we're well into the weeds of trivialities.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#186

Post by ynniv »

coldtea wrote: post #3

> But recently, I realized I’d gotten tired of Apple’s attitude toward the desktop. The progress in macOS land has basically been dead since Yosemite, two years ago, and Apple’s updates to the platform have been incredibly small. So, like creating a full blown new programming language (Swift)? Or a full new filesystem (AFS)? Integration of Cloud storage directly to the desktop? Siri on the desktop? Saving RAM through…

I'm a professional developer, I don't want a new toy language. I'm buying a powerful laptop, I don't want cloud storage. I want the possibility to dual boot or share drives with other operating systems, I don't need a new proprietary filesystem. I don't want compressed memory, I want 32GB of RAM. And while I'm at it, I want a laptop with a real keyboard, not keys that have so little travel they feel like a touchscreen.

In short, Apple is spending a lot of effort making features that I, as a professional developer and 20 year Mac user, don't want.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#187

Post by Symbiote »

Razengan wrote: post #152
arkades wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UI remains a convoluted Escher'esque nightmare. Comments like this make it hard to take any side of the discussion seriously. /Neither/ of the OSes are "Escher'esque nightmare[s]." My elderly mother can kludge her way through both of them, more or less reliably - admittedly, with more trouble than using her phone, but not a lot more. Nothing that a tech-illiterate can reasonably use on a day-to-day basis qualif…

> Comments like this make it hard to take any side of the discussion seriously. /Neither/ of the OSes are "Escher'esque nightmare[s]." • macOS Finder: http://i.imgur.com/9Y5hK0e.png • Windows Explorer: http://i.imgur.com/ef7CnJ4.png Alright. Maybe not nightmarish, but one of these IS objectively more convoluted than the other. Let's start with something simple: WHY does the "Options" button on the Windows Explorer Ri…

My mother would find the Windows one easier to use. There is text on the buttons, so if she presses something by mistake, she'll have more confidence to press other things to put it right again.

Which even is the options on Finder? The cog, I assume. If I'm helping over the phone, can a user describe the current state of Finder? Not really. But I could ask for the contents of the address bar in Explorer.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#188

Post by adekok »

Razengan wrote: post #21

Oh please. Not this again. I recently had the pleasure of checking in on Windows for the second time in 7 years. I had been a PC user since the DOS days, starting on a 286, and going all the way to Windows 8 when I switched to Macs around 2010. I've only ever needed Windows for games since then, and decided to install Boot Camp on the 15" 2016 MacBook Pro that I just got (which happens to be a pretty good machine [1]…

I'll agree with most of this. We had a new hire come in with his personal Windows laptop. We tried to get him connected to the corporate WiFi, and into the corporate net with our own client certs and private CA.

Uh... no. No, you can't do that.

WiFi configuration was annoying. Lots of clicking. No consistency to the UI. And for a relatively new laptop, it was slow. OSX in comparison was simple, relatively straightforward, and responsive.

Certificates were a joke. We could import certificates and CAs. But once imported, they didn't do anything. Access to the corporate intranet was still blocked with "unknown CA". When we went back to see if the certs had been imported... nope. No certificates. OK, import them again? Nope, still no certificates on the machine.

We gave up and let him use a spare Mac Mini.

I hate where Apple has been going with OSX: Slow strangulation by oxygen deprivation. But until it becomes entirely unusable, it's still better than Windows for me.

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#189

Post by ralphie02 »

dualogy wrote: post #141
jmcdiesel wrote: post #17

I used to be hardcore windows guy... Then 10 years ago I got a mac. I never went back.. But what am I saving money for right now? To build a nice PC again. Mostly because of the exact reasons in the article. I have a fondness for apple... but they have definitely lost their way. First, they were a computer company driven by a man who loved computers ("first" here is the Jobs return era) ... then they became a Compute…

> I wont buy a laptop without a magsafe or similar connection Not a big deal nowadays, my mid-2014 Thinkpad has a similar connection (it won't ever drag the laptop when pulled), I'd think most laptops should have such connectors by now, "mag-safe" or other?

which adapter exactly are you referring to here? I have a 2015/2016 thinkpad yoga for work and I don't think it's the same/similar at all to the magsafe adapter. Magsafe comes off even with the gentlest, but firm, tug even at an angle. I can't say the same for my thinkpad

Re: Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

#190

Post by 746F7475 »

owenwil wrote: post #15
otterley wrote: post #13

The question I'm left asking from posts like these is: As a non-game developer, what practical advantages does Windows hardware and software provide over Mac? The writing doesn't make it clear to me. Sure, there are some interesting facts noted, but there's no connection drawn or relationship established between the facts and the impact on the author's ability to work, or the work product itself.

Why not spin it around the other way? What advantages does Mac now have over Windows, in a world where Microsoft is catering to developers from both sides?

If I already have a Mac and I'm invested into the Apple ecosystem things on Windows needs to be 10-100 times better for me to make the switch.

If you are just starting out or you aren't in the Apple's ecosystem (e.g. you don't have Idevices) then Windows might be the place for you. I'd still go with Linux personally, but that's just me. Or if you just need more power, but I'm guessing most people here don't actually NEED that much power

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