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How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

nytimes.com

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Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#761

Post by jsmthrowaway »

WildUtah wrote: post #749
actsasbuffoon wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. Reputable news sources require at least two independent sources before they'll print a story. If NYT didn't have multiple current or former employees telling them about this then you wouldn't be reading this story.

Hahahaha. The New York Times is hardly a reliable source known to journalistic ethics or objectivity. It worked with Dubya Bush to push the Iraq war and worked hard to cover up Bush deliberately exposing intelligence agents through the newspaper in an attempt to get them killed for revealing malfeasance to Congress and the people. They reversed their editorial position on the balance of immigration enforcement techni…

It's concerning to see this narrative already working, considering a Carlos Slim "billion dollar investment" in the NYT is, itself, a lie. The good news for you is that a transaction that large would be public record, so I look forward to being proven wrong with a citation. (I suggest you look up the market capitalization of The New York Times Company.)

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#762

Post by andai »

hyperpape wrote: post #756
davidf18 wrote: post #745

There are laws that protect people from physical harm such as licensing for doctors or to keep people in certain fields from working too many hours (e.g. airline pilots and Emergency Room Doctors). There are laws that protect patents, copyrights, and other forms of IP so that inventors, writers can get some returns on their work. Then there are laws put in place by special interest groups to benefit themselves econom…

Just because the law is problematic (and let's be clear, it's problematic, but 1000 times less so than drug laws, for instance) doesn't give Uber a blanket right to keep cops from hailing their vehicles, unless you really think that there's no scenario where Uber or its drivers could be legitimate targets of investigation.

To the people who downvoted this fellow: why don't you post a comment instead?

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#763

Post by cgearhart »

HorizonXP wrote: post #6

How diabolical! In a world where privacy has been traded away for convenience, it's poetic justice where a startup uses data mining techniques to subvert the government. This is the same government that would have no issues to use the same techniques to spy on its own people for its own motives. I'm neither on Uber nor the government's side in this case, just simply making an observation. The lack of data privacy see…

And in both cases, it's _people_ who wind up with the short end of the deal.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#764

Post by accountface »

kristofferR wrote: post #228
accountface wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost is artificially low due to loss-backed driver subsidies.

What could be greater than getting your rides subsidized by fat cats?

livable wages for drivers

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#765

Post by WildUtah »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #761
WildUtah wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hahahaha. The New York Times is hardly a reliable source known to journalistic ethics or objectivity. It worked with Dubya Bush to push the Iraq war and worked hard to cover up Bush deliberately exposing intelligence agents through the newspaper in an attempt to get them killed for revealing malfeasance to Congress and the people. They reversed their editorial position on the balance of immigration enforcement techni…

It's concerning to see this narrative already working, considering a Carlos Slim "billion dollar investment" in the NYT is, itself, a lie. The good news for you is that a transaction that large would be public record, so I look forward to being proven wrong with a citation. (I suggest you look up the market capitalization of The New York Times Company.)

On the order of 1bn, but my memory of exact figures from a decade ago needed refreshing. In fact only $350 million of corrupt foreign monopolist cash is enough to buy the editorial position of America's premier source of fake news.

Good luck defending the NY Times on that basis.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#766

Post by jsmthrowaway »

WildUtah wrote: post #765
jsmthrowaway wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's concerning to see this narrative already working, considering a Carlos Slim "billion dollar investment" in the NYT is, itself, a lie. The good news for you is that a transaction that large would be public record, so I look forward to being proven wrong with a citation. (I suggest you look up the market capitalization of The New York Times Company.)

On the order of 1bn, but my memory of exact figures from a decade ago needed refreshing. In fact only $350 million of corrupt foreign monopolist cash is enough to buy the editorial position of America's premier source of fake news. Good luck defending the NY Times on that basis.

He increased his investment by $100ish million in 2015, which more than doubled his stake. This is easily found via Google, and is on the order of an order of magnitude below a billion dollars. You can't just make things up while decrying fake news. The trend line on these goalposts moving will eventually lead to an investment I can afford.

This is even beyond my position on the paper. You're just typing complete falsehoods and expecting to get away with it now, which is sad.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#767

Post by charlesdm »

wheelerwj wrote: post #741
charlesdm wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Corporate citizens have an obligation to obey the laws of the jurisdictions in which they operate. To some extent. If the fine is $50 for each infraction, and you have $10bn in the bank, you really don't have to obey the law. You can lobby to have the law changed and not obey the law (if you are willing to pay any and all fines, while you are lobbying). Uber's use case didn't exist 10+ years ago, and as such, most…

> To some extent. what?!?? no, you have always have an obligation to. Being obliged doesn't mean you're going to, but you do have an obligation. > I personally find that to be a valid example of where it's applicable not to follow the law oh great, now we all get to decide what laws we will or won't follow. is that really the precedent you are arguing for?

You've never jaywalked in your life then, right?

The law is generally something that evolves, because the world evolves.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#768

Post by wpietri »

WildUtah wrote: post #751
wpietri wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, and if you're wondering about the moral case, I think it's pretty clear. When we the people set out to do something together, deciding to evade our joint decisions and mechanisms for self-regulation is an antisocial, antidemocratic act.

When big money monopolists corrupt our local governments to obtain taxi monopolies at the expense of working families, the environment, and vulnerable racial minorities that can't hail taxis but can get an Uber, then it's the system that's antisocial and antidemocratic. Uber is a social reform movement organized as a profit-seeking business. Of course the forces of corruption and reaction are going to try to stop it…

So you claim.

But if they're a social reform movement, they'd very well disguised. They threaten journalists, exploit workers, engage in a variety of skulduggery, and create such a toxic working environment that they need a former Attorney General to investigate.

I think the more likely case is that they are what they appear to be: greedy, amoral people disguising an attempt to gain a monopoly using the guise of social reform.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#769

Post by chris_wot »

zamalek wrote: post #681
chris_wot wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see them subpoenaed to explain what they were doing. They were deliberately violating the law, and trying to avoid detection just makes things much, much worse. This has got to be illegal.

Entrapment is also illegal.

Sure, but is not entrapment. Firstly, Uber was definitely offering the service, so it's not like they tricked them into committing a crime. And the government hailing an Uber ride doesn't meet the objective test that forces a normal, law-abiding citizen to commit a crime.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#770

Post by PhasmaFelis »

jfoutz wrote: post #263
us0r wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not a popular opinion but I find this entire thing pure genius. >I couldn't find a good source, but it doesn't seem like that's something a CC merchant would have access to. Do they really get to see that? The first 6 digits of a credit card can identify the issuing bank (BIN number - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_card_number ). If you ask your merchant they can readily provide you and up to date list.…

I agree. It's genius in a Lex Luthor kind of way. If I understood the full scope of the application, I like to think i'd decline to work on that. It's easy to imagine engineers working on small parts of the system, and never really connecting the dots that the whole point is to evade law enforcement. There's a big difference between keeping secrets for market advantage and to evade the law. In the first case, I want…

How do we feel about agreeing to do it and then quieting reporting everything I do?
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