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Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

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Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#201

Post by navalsaini »

cavisne wrote: post #35

In america it is super hard to give feedback to applicants, most mature workplaces ban it, and instruct you to route any such requests through the recruitment/HR team. I think it sucks, but this is way to litigious a society for it to work any other way. It makes me wonder if there is some opportunity for a middle man service that anonymizes the source of the feedback.

It should not be that difficult to give honest feedback to someone who came onsite (from a different country) for the interview.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#202

Post by coldtea »

k__ wrote: post #160
kreetx wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless he knew exactly what he wanted, and simply asked for that :)

Sure thing, but it came across rather self absorbed.

Well, it is not like he was speaking on behalf of someone else.

It was HE that would be taking the job -- so why not make sure it's the job he wanted in the first place?

If he was desperate for any job AND still said that, then he would be indeed self absorbed.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#203

Post by coldtea »

dahart wrote: post #188

The most common reason I've turned down very qualified candidates is that they didn't appear to want the job very badly, relative to other candidates, and didn't seem willing to extend much effort to appear interested in the job they were applying for. Some very experienced applicants seem to assume their experience weighs so heavily that their chances of getting the job are better than anyone else's, and that there'…

>The most common reason I've turned down very qualified candidates is that they didn't appear to want the job very badly, relative to other candidates, and didn't seem willing to extend much effort to appear interested in the job they were applying for.

So no ass-kissing, looking desperate or acting over-eager at working for some random company out of tens of thousands of other companies like it was a dream coming true?

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#204

Post by coldtea »

dahart wrote: post #195
navalsaini wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might need a job badly but I find it difficult to show that I need it badly. It just seems too much drama for me. I just hate these interviews - they are so much about pretending to so much better than you really are, etc etc... But I really don't have a solution to propose either. I just wish interviewers start registering in for different kinds of personalities.

> I might need a job badly but I find it difficult to show that I need it badly. Okay, so there's a very fine line here. You don't want to show that you need it badly. You want to show that you want it badly. Need it badly would imply that the reason you're there is for the cash, and you don't care about the company you're applying for or the job you're going to do for them. Want it badly might likely imply that you'…

>Want it badly might likely imply that you're dying to do the job you're applying for, and you're dying to work for this particular company.

How about not asking people to be "dying" for the job, but just be professionals?

Except if the target audience is starry eyed 20-year olds to exploit.

When did merely having a good resume and being professional gone out of fashion?

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#205

Post by bsvalley »

throawayname wrote: post #87

What are you willing to sacrifice? I can give you an answer, but you won't like it. As an Indian man you'll be discriminated against. Period. Lots of empirical proof for that, not just job wise but in lots of other cases (dating, etc). While folks here will give you lots of tips on the professional side, here are a few actionable things you can do to minimize racial bias: - Change your name to an americanized version…

This is half true. I'm not Indian but I've been in the Bay Area long enough. I'd say in the PM world, if you apply at companies like ebay, oracle, paypal, etc. being Indian is actually a plus ;) Applying at startups in San Francisco though, I have to admit that you can easily get discriminated. Now, on the engineering side, I can copy/past your message and replace "Indian" by "caucasian".

There is definitely a lot of discrimination in the professional environment in general. People don't want to go outside of their comfort zone. They'd rather see themselves 5 times in a team instead of learning things from different people.

Long story short, applying for a PM role with an accent and some sort of stereotypes in the Bay Area is definitely not a plus. Increase the number of applications you'll find a place. It's a candidate's market right now so people pick whatever they feel comfortable not having to adapt to much. Laziness is king right now.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#206

Post by appreciateya »

Hey OP. Sorry to hear about your unsatisfactory experiences. Sounds like you've had a successful career-- Don't feel down. Remember everything you've accomplished. To unsuccessful plebs without solid careers like myself, and I don't even know ya-- you sound pretty damn successful already. That's something to be proud of.

Opportunity could be just around the corner. Don't give up now! What if it's that 8th or 9th interview that leads to the position you want? Persevere! You could be super close to the end of the race--i.e. to getting the job you're looking for!

For me at least, sometimes opportunity comes when I least expect it, or when I am feeling most down on my luck...

Just out of curiosity-- Why don't you like the product management position?

I have friends for whom 'product management' is their ultimate dream job, hence I am curious about your experiences. I guess the grass is always greener.

What sort of product? What sort of company? What are the major downsides in your view, which are causing you to be depressed?

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#207

Post by j45 »

GuiA wrote: post #124
j45 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offence, some of this is dubious and degrading advice at best. Don't mean to be mean below in deconstructing the above, only clear. Current heritage CEO of Google and Microsoft prove some things. You don't choose things like the family you're born into or the colour of your skin. It's humiliating to be treated in a way to try to cover it up like you made a mistake of choosing those things. Americanized name - If p…

A few of your remarks are solid in an ideological sense, but sadly the bulk of your comment comes across as "white dude mansplaining to an indian dude why he doesn't have to worry about racism". Racism is alive and well, and a real problem that people have to deal with. Advice like "embrace your proud geek culture and be your own person learning and pursuing the things that interest you" is generic feel good woowoo t…

Hi, I'm not white. Not even close. I'm not sure why someone as openminded as yourself would jump to a conclusion. Sincerely have not meant to do it myself.

I assure you I'm among the most visible and targeted of minorities.

Racism is sadly, absolutely alive and well. The question is are you going to resign to it or engage with it in a positively unreasonable and relentless way? Ending racism is also a startup.

The first step for me to get used to taking a strangers and making them a human being so it's not as easy to dismiss them, or their experience.

It's concerning you might automatically think what I wrote is ideological. I practice these things every day. Happy to chat about any points above you'd like to know more about me, I just wanted to share what I have learnt by my own experience with the original poster, and the results it has helped achieve.

As for "generic woo woo culture", there's no need to put someone down, my message was for the original poster. If this has a hit a nerve with you of what you feel the world is, I agree it's not an easy place, and it gets harder, but the only peace I'm finding is when I'm getting better.. leave me no choice but to take responsibility for improving myself.

I also belong to another woo woo culture/practice that fiercely promotes manifesting yourself in action in the world through positivity action towards other, treating all of humanity as one and your extended family, and selfless service towards all. So why not be that way.

reachj45@gmail.com, would love to learn more about you :)

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#208

Post by j45 »

hkmurakami wrote: post #141
GuiA wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few of your remarks are solid in an ideological sense, but sadly the bulk of your comment comes across as "white dude mansplaining to an indian dude why he doesn't have to worry about racism". Racism is alive and well, and a real problem that people have to deal with. Advice like "embrace your proud geek culture and be your own person learning and pursuing the things that interest you" is generic feel good woowoo t…

10x Especially the American name thing. You can only know the disadvantages of having a non-western name if you've actually used one. There's a reason why so many ethnic (particularly Asian, from what I understand) lawyers use American "professional names".

I have a non-western name. I don't have an American or professional name. Not saying everyone should, or not, only that it exists.

Shortening one's name is a common practice among American names.

Ironically I grew up in a school environment where I was one of the few minorities, and when I got to university, people of a shared background shortened my name.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#209

Post by l_t »

coldtea wrote: post #203
dahart wrote: post #188

The most common reason I've turned down very qualified candidates is that they didn't appear to want the job very badly, relative to other candidates, and didn't seem willing to extend much effort to appear interested in the job they were applying for. Some very experienced applicants seem to assume their experience weighs so heavily that their chances of getting the job are better than anyone else's, and that there'…

> The most common reason I've turned down very qualified candidates is that they didn't appear to want the job very badly, relative to other candidates, and didn't seem willing to extend much effort to appear interested in the job they were applying for. So no ass-kissing, looking desperate or acting over-eager at working for some random company out of tens of thousands of other companies like it was a dream coming t…

Nobody said anything about that. The point is, even if you have experience, you can't phone it in during the interview.

If you aren't likeable, many people won't want to hire you no matter how experienced you are. It's just basic psychology.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#210

Post by j45 »

na85 wrote: post #165
j45 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offence, some of this is dubious and degrading advice at best. Don't mean to be mean below in deconstructing the above, only clear. Current heritage CEO of Google and Microsoft prove some things. You don't choose things like the family you're born into or the colour of your skin. It's humiliating to be treated in a way to try to cover it up like you made a mistake of choosing those things. Americanized name - If p…

>Sadly, sometimes salespeople in a store won't greet me unless I say hi first. That sounds fantastic. I wish this was my experience when shopping because I hate being harassed by salespeople looking to make a commission.

Hah, I didn't say it was a bad thing. Except when you actually do need help with something.

The strangest one (and it is rare) is was at Costco a few weeks ago. The guy just pointed at the payment terminal, didn't say hi. I asked him why he was pointing at the machine and not saying hi. I forgot to say hi first.

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