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Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

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Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#31

Post by catshirt »

hope i don't sound patronizing, just want to send a friendly reminder that hating your job is, as we say, a good problem to have! :) and a normal one... unfortunately.

that out of the way. not getting feedback is probably not an option at this point. you need honest feedback from someone who is able to accurately evaluate your interview performance. i would be pressing for more honest feedback in my interviews. it might help to humble up a little bit and explain to them what you've explained to us. (post-rejection, of course...)

might be unorthodox but if i were you i would consider scrounging up 30 bucks or something and soliciting an "interview consultation" on craigslist or some Slack channels or something.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#32

Post by throwthisawayt »

How much product management experience do you have ? What type of companies have you had PM experience at? What were you doing before product ?

It's very hard to get people to diagnose the problem online but maybe if you give more details we can help you out. Otherwise reach out to a trusted colleague.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#35

Post by cavisne »

In america it is super hard to give feedback to applicants, most mature workplaces ban it, and instruct you to route any such requests through the recruitment/HR team.

I think it sucks, but this is way to litigious a society for it to work any other way.

It makes me wonder if there is some opportunity for a middle man service that anonymizes the source of the feedback.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#36

Post by SeanBoocock »

jwilliams wrote: post #28

If the companies are worth their salt, they should be giving (or willing to give) you detailed feedback. _Especially_ if you got to a face-to-face interview. If they don't, then I'd consider that a lucky miss. First step would be to ask, at least, the 7 on-sites for feedback. If it's insufficient, ask for more. Explain that you're having trouble at the last hurdle and that their feedback will help. Take that feedback…

"If the companies are worth their salt, they should be giving (or willing to give) you detailed feedback. _Especially_ if you got to a face-to-face interview. If they don't, then I'd consider that a lucky miss."

Really? It's been my experience that companies will not give feedback, at least anything that could be considered detailed feedback, as a blanket policy. The perception at least is that giving feedback opens up the company to potential litigation and provides the company no benefit.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#37

Post by 0xcolton »

Keep positive man - as you know so much of product development is about feedback and iteration. I would really push your ex-interviewers or even the recruiting folks to share their exact thoughts on what didn't go well - even if you have to go through a few people to get the truth.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#38

Post by dbg31415 »

Look man, getting hired as a Product Manager has a lot to do with personality. It's a role where you are perpetually having to explain, advocate, and negotiate on behalf of various interests. If you don't find a way to make everyone feel like you are on their side during the interviews... if you talk over the head of a VP, if you don't know about the tech, if you don't manage to sound confident in all your dealings... they may just say, "Gosh, we got this guy with 3 years experience... let's give him a go... he's a lot cheaper."

There's certainly a funk that PMs go through... mid-30s sounds about right. If you aren't getting jobs through connections by your mid 30s... it's going to be REALLY hard to land jobs. Don't forget you're competing against people here... 5, 10, 25... who knows. So you may not be doing anything wrong, you may just not be that top 4% for that one role. That one role isn't all roles... each company is going to need something a little different. So just keep trying.

If you can, find a PM who is a little more senior than you -- someone you trust -- and do a mock interview with them so they can give you their feedback. Ideally this would be someone you meet through a friend of a friend so they can be objective as possible.

Have faith in yourself and others will too. Finding the right job take time.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#39

Post by lloydde »

jwilliams wrote: post #28

If the companies are worth their salt, they should be giving (or willing to give) you detailed feedback. _Especially_ if you got to a face-to-face interview. If they don't, then I'd consider that a lucky miss. First step would be to ask, at least, the 7 on-sites for feedback. If it's insufficient, ask for more. Explain that you're having trouble at the last hurdle and that their feedback will help. Take that feedback…

> If the companies are worth their salt, they should be giving (or willing to give) you detailed feedback. _Especially_ if you got to a face-to-face interview. If they don't, then I'd consider that a lucky miss.

Very few companies will provide specific, direct feedback even after a face-to-face interview. In fact, their HR has likely coached them not to.

I try to provide both positive and one factor that influenced it not being a match. This sometimes ends up causing problems for my employer, likely mostly because I don't do it well, but it helps me grow in having difficult conversations and I feel some feedback is the least I can do after the candidate spending so much time and energy. I've learned to ask people first, "is it ok if I share some frank feedback?"

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#40

Post by sharp11 »

Just to add one more perspective, and not making any assumptions, what have you done to assess your accent? It's a really tough thing to self-assess.

Is it possible that it's heavier than you think? Depending on the role, if your accent is heavy enough to add cognitive burden for listeners, it could be part of what's holding you back. Fortunately, it's something that can be addressed - it takes work, but it can be done!

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