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In praise of cash

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Re: In praise of cash

#261

Post by wolfgke »

ghaff wrote: post #14
CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

I can go weeks without touching cash these days. Nonetheless, I find the idea that I could be prevented from making a person-to-person financial transaction for even a modest amount without a paper trail pretty unsettling.

> I can go weeks without touching cash these days.

Luckily I can still go weeks without touching my EC card these days.

Re: In praise of cash

#262

Post by lucio »

vkou wrote: post #237
M_Grey wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cashless society would be an attempt to create a society that lacks basic economic freedom, but it would also fail. People will simply return to barter, and the use of whatever precious metals/stones/etc are hot that year.

Unfortunately, the US Government does not accept tax payments in turnips, emeralds, pirate treasure, moonshine, or Eth. Until that changes, you will need to interface with the USD economy. The US government also expects your tax payment on an annual basis.

But, if you fully trade using any of those examples as money, you're actually invisible to the tax collector...

Re: In praise of cash

#263

Post by jbpetersen »

jrs235 wrote: post #43
canadian_voter wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo, I think you nailed it. The cashless society – which more accurately should be called the bank-payments society... is a utopia where money cannot leave – or even exist – outside the banking system, but can only be transferred from bank to bank. Such a system replaces a relationship between two parties with relationships between those parties and the bank. If either party falls out of favour with the bank, they…

The introduction of the revelatory "mark of the beast". No one will be able to [legally] buy or sell without it. I suspect anyone that tries to barter or trade outside of the system will be considered and labeled a criminal for operating in black markets or tax evasion.

Fun fact: The SF innovation center of Visa has t-shirts which literally say "The Mark" on them. Though supposedly in reference to [this guy](https://usa.visa.com/visa-everywhere/innovation-centers/san-...).

Re: In praise of cash

#264

Post by marcosdumay »

morgante wrote: post #181
marcosdumay wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about Bitcoin. I'm talking about the government issuing digital money. To make it clear, I don't think it's an entirely good thing, but it would be a much easier path to the kind of surveillance they want to create.

Most money is already digital.

Most digital money is not government issued...

Re: In praise of cash

#265

Post by gpawl »

wolfgke wrote: post #256
mustacheemperor wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If either party falls out of favour with the bank, they can't do business with each other. For an immediately ready example, I present Paypal Seller/Buyer disputes on eBay. I'm always a little tickled by tech people hyping the idea of a cashless society. Don't we all hate Paypal?

> Don't we all hate Paypal? Also don't forget that Peter Thiel got really rich by selling Paypal to eBay in 2002. After that in 2003 he founded Palantir Technologies - a company that produces surveillance software for the three letter agencies. I often like to say that getting lots of money does not make you a bad person, but brings your true character traits to light.

Palantir is a data analysis system, not a data collection system.

Re: In praise of cash

#266

Post by chc »

wolfgke wrote: post #259
swiftisthebest wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin, bro.

Bitcoin is (without further tricks) only pseudonymous, not anonymous.

The concern expressed above was not about anonymity, but about requiring the approval of a third party to carry out a transaction. (Although I'm pretty sure Bitcoin does that too, but with multiple third parties in the form of miners.)

Re: In praise of cash

#267

Post by azernik »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #174
canadian_voter wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo, I think you nailed it. The cashless society – which more accurately should be called the bank-payments society... is a utopia where money cannot leave – or even exist – outside the banking system, but can only be transferred from bank to bank. Such a system replaces a relationship between two parties with relationships between those parties and the bank. If either party falls out of favour with the bank, they…

> If either party falls out of favour with the bank, they can't do business with each other. For an immediately ready example, I present Paypal Seller/Buyer disputes on eBay. I'm always a little tickled by tech people hyping the idea of a cashless society. Don't we all hate Paypal?

Or, for an even scarier example, the way that payment processors have forced FetLife to restrict the kinds of (legal!) fetishes people are allowed to discuss on the site.

Re: In praise of cash

#268

Post by nfbush »

gpawl wrote: post #265
wolfgke wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't we all hate Paypal? Also don't forget that Peter Thiel got really rich by selling Paypal to eBay in 2002. After that in 2003 he founded Palantir Technologies - a company that produces surveillance software for the three letter agencies. I often like to say that getting lots of money does not make you a bad person, but brings your true character traits to light.

Palantir is a data analysis system, not a data collection system.

Doesn't mean it cannot be surveillance software

Re: In praise of cash

#269

Post by krallja »

sametmax wrote: post #67
nunez wrote: post #2

While I agree that cash is extremely convenient and largely anonymous, it is still much more of a hassle to manage than credit or debit cards are. I lived in NYC for a bunch of years and the one thing that I absolutely do not miss is paying for >$100 dinners, entirely in cash, because the restaurant was "too cheap" to handle processing and transaction fees.

Which means your bank knows if you buy a sex doll, if you have diarrhea, if you are a member of a political party or if you donated to your cult. And I don't believe in the legal system enough to think that the information is not shared. Also, cash is one of society safety net. You see, nothing is black and white, and society is not perfect. If it can control everything, then the citizen has no margin, no grey zone t…

In my state (NC), membership in a political party is public information.

Re: In praise of cash

#270

Post by ghaff »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #221
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had the pleasure (?) of going on vacation without notifying the card company. Because a hotel was late with a correction to their charge, that showed the card in use at two places at once, so they shut it down. While I was on vacation. That got... uncomfortable. Fortunately, they only shut down my card. My wife's still worked, and we were able to proceed. It made for a more stressful vacation, though...

This is why I always have two bank accounts (with two different banks and two different ATM cards) and always have two credit cards, in case one bank account or one credit card gets shut down or skimmed it wouldn't be a big inconvenience. Especially helpful if you are going out of the country.

I've never gone so far as to have a second bank account. But I'm guessing a brokerage account could basically serve as the same thing.
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