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In praise of cash

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Re: In praise of cash

#131

Post by scott_s »

dragonwriter wrote: post #113
afarrell wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People will simply return to barter. In what societies have humans used barter? I suspect we would instead use something like tobacco, laundry detergent, or startup t-shirts as cash or we would keep a mental register of who owes whom a favor.

> In what societies have humans used barter? All of them, including (but not limited to, since barter predates money) all the ones that also have a money economy.

The book "Debt: The First 5,000 Years" (https://www.mhpbooks.com/books/debt/) makes a compelling case that no societies on record have depended on a barter economy. The author also argues that debt even predates state sponsored currency.

Re: In praise of cash

#132

Post by protomyth »

pdkl95 wrote: post #28
nunez wrote: post #2

While I agree that cash is extremely convenient and largely anonymous, it is still much more of a hassle to manage than credit or debit cards are. I lived in NYC for a bunch of years and the one thing that I absolutely do not miss is paying for >$100 dinners, entirely in cash, because the restaurant was "too cheap" to handle processing and transaction fees.

> still much more of a hassle That's when everything works correctly. What about when the power goes out and the card reading device stops working? What about transaction denials due to bank mistakes (or predatory policies)? Having the option to pay with credit/etc is nice, but the failure modes can be nasty.

I was buying gas at 2AM in Grand Forks, ND on my way back to my parents home. I had stopped at that same station multiple times, but Citibank denied the authorization (plenty of money, and I only used that card for gas). I foolishly was about $5 short on cash[1], had to call Citibank and yell. Had to walk to the across the street that had an ATM that would work with my bank card (gas station ATM didn't have the network). It was a typical ND winter night.

The failure mode on getting permission is really nasty.

Thinking about it, they really had some sh!+ software at that point since I only used the card at 4 gas stations with 1 in the Plymouth, MN and the other three on the I94 / I29 route.

1) after this I started following my Dad's policy of hiding $100 in the car for emergencies.

Re: In praise of cash

#133

Post by sersi »

I want to continue being able to pay by Cash as it's the only to guarantee my privacy. But, because of the miles I get using my credit card, I end up almost never using any cash.

I'll have to think about this, do I value the plane trips so much that I'm willing to compromise on my values regarding privacy?

I'm also going to look into blockchain currencies like Bitcoin to see what potential currencies would guarantee my privacy.

Re: In praise of cash

#134

Post by beambot »

aianus wrote: post #91
beambot wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So anyone who isn't creditworthy (ie. poor) pays additional tax in the form of higher-priced goods. But to heck with them for being poor, right, because you get the convenience and cash back?

That's not at all what creditworthiness is. You can be rich and have bad credit as easily as being poor and having good credit.

The bulk of people with bad credit are not rich... and bad credit disproportionately harms people who are not rich. But that wasn't the point of my comment or the GP's; we were talking about the 1-3% tax on goods (effectively) imposed by credit companies... and how people who aren't in lower socio-economic classes are largely oblivious to the costs it imposes on poorer populations.

Re: In praise of cash

#135

Post by protomyth »

phil21 wrote: post #51
nunez wrote: post #2

While I agree that cash is extremely convenient and largely anonymous, it is still much more of a hassle to manage than credit or debit cards are. I lived in NYC for a bunch of years and the one thing that I absolutely do not miss is paying for >$100 dinners, entirely in cash, because the restaurant was "too cheap" to handle processing and transaction fees.

> because the restaurant was "too cheap" to handle processing and transaction fees. I applaud businesses like this. The fact we slowly let a few giant private corporations enact a 1-3% fee against pratically the entire consumer economy would be ludicrous in any other situation. Plus the privacy concerns just are not worth the convenience. Whenever possible I use cash, simply so I slow the day coming where I can't fun…

A lot of businesses here in rural ND that do accept cards (the bakery doesn't) have signs that say the won't accept cards for transactions under $10.

Re: In praise of cash

#136

Post by BlackMonday »

Freak_NL wrote: post #65
BlackMonday wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In europe most of the population seems to prefer to pay in cash (for clothes, groceries, electronics etc. pp.).

> In europe most of the population seems to prefer to pay in cash (for clothes, groceries, electronics etc. pp.). That is a very coarse and completely unfounded statement. The situation differs greatly per country; you can spend months without touching cash in the Netherlands or Sweden. In the Netherlands we've passed the 50% mark for electronic debit card payments at a point of sale a decade ago! Online purchases ar…

I should have worded it better, but it's not wrong. It's predicted that cards wil overtake cash by 2022, at the moment cash is ahead: https://www.atkearney.com/documents/10192/9746746/Cashing+In...

probably because netherlands and sweden make up only 4% of europes population and the other countries are slower at adopting it.

Re: In praise of cash

#137

Post by iopq »

CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

Bitcoin uses a system that doesn't rely on any single person's authority.

Re: In praise of cash

#138

Post by ghaff »

jonknee wrote: post #100
treyfitty wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chip transactions aren't processed in most gas terminals. It's not mandatory for gas terminals until 2020. https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/emv-credit-card...

I can't wait for contactless payments at most gas stations. Seems like the perfect spot for it, you're already going to get your phone out to kill the pumping time anyway.

You'll see signs about cellphone use around a lot of gas pumps. (Though, according to Mythbusters a number of years back, the issue is static electricity, not the cell phone.) It's possible laws might need to change to use a phone payment at the gas pump.

Re: In praise of cash

#139

Post by vwcx »

jonknee wrote: post #100
treyfitty wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chip transactions aren't processed in most gas terminals. It's not mandatory for gas terminals until 2020. https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/emv-credit-card...

I can't wait for contactless payments at most gas stations. Seems like the perfect spot for it, you're already going to get your phone out to kill the pumping time anyway.

You mean, you're already going to get your phone out to kill yourself while pumping anyway. Static fires are real.

Re: In praise of cash

#140

Post by stinkytaco »

iopq wrote: post #137
CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

Bitcoin uses a system that doesn't rely on any single person's authority.

Banking doesn't rely on a single person's authority either. But it relies on a network of connections and rules. So does bitcoin. No blockchain, no transaction.

Really, cash relies on some sort of approval too. Someone's got to mint money and assure its scarcity (eg: value). I believe in cash for a variety of reasons, but there is no transaction aside from barter that doesn't rely on someone else's authority to buy something.

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