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In praise of cash

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Re: In praise of cash

#121

Post by huffmsa »

ghaff wrote: post #14
CPLX wrote: post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

I can go weeks without touching cash these days. Nonetheless, I find the idea that I could be prevented from making a person-to-person financial transaction for even a modest amount without a paper trail pretty unsettling.

Paper trail?

What are you hiding citizen? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

Re: In praise of cash

#122

Post by pdonis »

srssays wrote: post #99
mrec wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is still much more of a hassle to manage than credit or debit cards are I don't really get this. I use credit cards (almost entirely online), but I've never used a debit card. Not out of any deep-seated aversion, I just don't see the point.

I am exactly the opposite. I use a debit card, but I've never used a credit card. Why would I want to borrow money (and risk owing interest), if I already have money readily accessible via my debit card?

> Why would I want to borrow money (and risk owing interest), if I already have money readily accessible via my debit card?

Because if your credit card is used fraudulently, you tell the credit card company, they disallow the charges, and nothing comes out of your pocket.

If your debit card is used fraudulently, the money comes direct from your bank account, and you get to find out how much work it is to get that money back--and in the meantime, you don't have it.

Re: In praise of cash

#123

Post by eric_the_read »

jk563 wrote: post #80
eric_the_read wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The appeal is largely that credit cards let you spend money you don't have, and debit cards, by definition, don't. For people who have a hard time operating within their budget with credit cards, this is a huge difference.

Worth pointing out that this can be fuzzy, I have a £1600 overdraft facility that I can use with my debit card (I don't use it though).

True enough, but I hate those things. They tend to incur nasty fees when used on top of the overdraft itself, and then there's interest to be paid on the overdraft amount if not paid in full, etc., etc.

If allowed, I will always disable them, and when not allowed, I will change banks to one that will allow it.

Re: In praise of cash

#124

Post by mrec »

mercer wrote: post #116
mrec wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, but surely that's something that cash does even better, isn't it? I take a fixed amount of cash out once a week and that's everything I'm going to spend that week. Not only can you not spend money you don't have, you can't accidentally spend more money than you were planning to spend. (I carry a few extra weeks' buffer for emergencies, but could put that in a separate pocket or something if it ever became a…

> Well yes, but surely that's something that cash does even better, isn't it? [...] > Agree re credit cards, but I never carry a balance, they're just a payment mechanism. I think you just answered your own question. For most people here (Holland), a credit card is not a 'default' (and so many people don't even have one). We still use our debit card all the time because it's so much more convenient as payment method…

We (UK) have had self-checkout tills for a few years too, but they still take cash as well as debit card.

Maybe I'm just old, but I don't want payment to be too frictionless. Cash still strikes the right balance for me; convenient enough that I don't get annoyed by it, not so convenient that I lose track of what I'm spending.

Re: In praise of cash

#125

Post by Neliquat »

ghaff wrote: post #33
angersock wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never paid for admittance to a club? Paid a busker? Gone shopping at a thrift store or pawn shop? Bought something at a garage sale? Paid for dinner and tipped without having to split the check for n different cards? Your post reeks of inexperience.

I've actually wondered what the impact on buskers, clerks that make some money off a tip jar, etc. is of the shift toward plastic. I guess, in the US, a dollar bill is still a relatively small amount. But I know that I basically never have change on me these days unless it's quarters to put in a parking meter.

I imagine one of those swipe attachments for a cheap android phone would work well. The UI is known pretty well now, and many people trust them in the US. I often see them at festivals, where it was previously all-cash, but are now maybe 20% plastic, usually for bigger items ($65 tshirts lol.)

Re: In praise of cash

#126

Post by tshibley »

srssays wrote: post #99
mrec wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is still much more of a hassle to manage than credit or debit cards are I don't really get this. I use credit cards (almost entirely online), but I've never used a debit card. Not out of any deep-seated aversion, I just don't see the point.

I am exactly the opposite. I use a debit card, but I've never used a credit card. Why would I want to borrow money (and risk owing interest), if I already have money readily accessible via my debit card?

The biggest reason I can think of is safety. With a good credit card you are not liable for any fraudulent charges, which definitely isn't the case for debit cards.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/credit-card-vs-...

Re: In praise of cash

#127

Post by colorint »

smacktoward wrote: post #117

> This second mode of money is essentially private, running off an infrastructure collectively controlled by profit-seeking commercial banks and a host of private payment intermediaries – like Visa and Mastercard – that work with them. The data inscriptions in your bank account are not state money. This raises a question in my mind which probably shows my ignorance of finance more than anything, but here goes: Why no…

You say bank notes were redeemable for "coin or specie," but really that's state money. So state money precedes bank money. This was also a horrible system, because bank notes didn't have guaranteed parity (with each other or with state money) or guaranteed redemption.

Also, the "final" clearing system for electronic transactions is public. In the US, it's called Fedwire, which is operated by the Federal Reserve which, despite various paranoid ramblings, is a public institution. The problem is, only reserve banks are allowed to have accounts with the central bank, which makes the system appear private. It's even trickier with credit cards, where you're basically asking a credit provider for a loan every time you swipe.

So maybe the better question is, why isn't there a national depository bank of the United States? And then you can advance whatever answer you want for that one.

Re: In praise of cash

#128

Post by coldtea »

afarrell wrote: post #109
M_Grey wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cashless society would be an attempt to create a society that lacks basic economic freedom, but it would also fail. People will simply return to barter, and the use of whatever precious metals/stones/etc are hot that year.

> People will simply return to barter. In what societies have humans used barter? I suspect we would instead use something like tobacco, laundry detergent, or startup t-shirts as cash or we would keep a mental register of who owes whom a favor.

>In what societies have humans used barter?

Almost all of them to some degree. Including modern societies (at rural places), especially up until the sixties or so, and even Western European cities (during the war and the very poor years post war).

Also common in communist countries...

Re: In praise of cash

#129

Post by eric_the_read »

mrec wrote: post #102
eric_the_read wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The appeal is largely that credit cards let you spend money you don't have, and debit cards, by definition, don't. For people who have a hard time operating within their budget with credit cards, this is a huge difference.

Well yes, but surely that's something that cash does even better, isn't it? I take a fixed amount of cash out once a week and that's everything I'm going to spend that week. Not only can you not spend money you don't have, you can't accidentally spend more money than you were planning to spend. (I carry a few extra weeks' buffer for emergencies, but could put that in a separate pocket or something if it ever became a…

The difference is that I generally feel safe carrying a debit card around where I wouldn't with even $100 in cash. In the US, we are just getting chip cards for debit, so even if my wallet is stolen, I can just call the bank and cancel it, but I can't do that with cash.

I'm with you on the credit cards-- for me, they're just a point-generating mechanism-- but it's easy for me, since if I accidentally go over my budget, I have enough savings to easily cover it whenever that happens. For people who live more paycheck-to-paycheck, that can be devastating, and it's sometimes non-trivial to compute your safe-to-spend amount from a current credit card balance, expected expenses, and current bank balance.

Re: In praise of cash

#130

Post by ipsi »

jonknee wrote: post #103
srssays wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am exactly the opposite. I use a debit card, but I've never used a credit card. Why would I want to borrow money (and risk owing interest), if I already have money readily accessible via my debit card?

- Very good rewards deals (cash back, points, free checked luggage, etc) - Free perks like rental car insurance and extended warranties - You never have to worry about your bank account being cleared out If you pay your bill this all comes for free. It's a pretty amazing deal actually.

In the UK, at least, Credit Cards also have much better protection under the law: http://www.money.co.uk/current-accounts/is-debit-card-protec... - Debit Cards are not _required_ to have any protection.
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