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In praise of cash

aeon.co

101–110 of 369 posts

Re: In praise of cash

#101
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue it's inherent in a right to privacy.

I'm just not sure you can construct a coherent argument around that though. Obviously a seller isn't obligated to accept cash; is there a suggestion that we should legally require sellers to do so?

No, but I think an argument can be made that if both parties agree to the transaction, then it is their right to carry it out.

Re: In praise of cash

#102
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is still much more of a hassle to manage than credit or debit cards are I don't really get this. I use credit cards (almost entirely online), but I've never used a debit card. Not out of any deep-seated aversion, I just don't see the point.

The appeal is largely that credit cards let you spend money you don't have, and debit cards, by definition, don't. For people who have a hard time operating within their budget with credit cards, this is a huge difference.

Well yes, but surely that's something that cash does even better, isn't it? I take a fixed amount of cash out once a week and that's everything I'm going to spend that week. Not only can you not spend money you don't have, you can't accidentally spend more money than you were planning to spend. (I carry a few extra weeks' buffer for emergencies, but could put that in a separate pocket or something if it ever became a temptation; so far it hasn't.)

My tinfoil-hatted side does wonder whether this is half the motivation of these new "convenient" debit mechanisms - like those fake "points" currencies used by various stores and in-app purchase schemes, I'm sure people spend more money when it doesn't feel like spending money.

Agree re credit cards, but I never carry a balance, they're just a payment mechanism.

Re: In praise of cash

#103
post #99
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is still much more of a hassle to manage than credit or debit cards are I don't really get this. I use credit cards (almost entirely online), but I've never used a debit card. Not out of any deep-seated aversion, I just don't see the point.

I am exactly the opposite. I use a debit card, but I've never used a credit card. Why would I want to borrow money (and risk owing interest), if I already have money readily accessible via my debit card?

- Very good rewards deals (cash back, points, free checked luggage, etc)

- Free perks like rental car insurance and extended warranties

- You never have to worry about your bank account being cleared out

If you pay your bill this all comes for free. It's a pretty amazing deal actually.

Re: In praise of cash

#104
post #99
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is still much more of a hassle to manage than credit or debit cards are I don't really get this. I use credit cards (almost entirely online), but I've never used a debit card. Not out of any deep-seated aversion, I just don't see the point.

I am exactly the opposite. I use a debit card, but I've never used a credit card. Why would I want to borrow money (and risk owing interest), if I already have money readily accessible via my debit card?

I don't use a credit card instead of a debit card, I use cash instead of a debit card. I mentioned the credit card just to emphasize that this isn't out of some weird card phobia.

Re: In praise of cash

#105
post #54
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very complicated to articulate exactly who can block Bitcoin transactions. The traditional simple answer is that "a majority of mining power" can block an individual transaction by refusing to include it in blocks. However, they have to be pretty committed to this, because if someone outside of the group does eventually mine a block that contains the censored transaction, the group members also have to be willin…

The economics of bitcoin and all alt coins mean some company will have the most efficient solution long term and thus mine far more than 51%. And once someone can mine 80+% of a block chain they can do what they want with it. PS: Add up the Chinese pools and one country effectively already controls bitcoin.

For those out of the loop, miners work together in pools to combine their mining power. With more mining power, the more likely it is for them to mine a block (of the blockchain) and divide its payout among members of the pool. Pools cause centralization of mining power. You can see a list of pools and the percentage of their mining power at [https://blockchain.info/pools].

Looking at the chart, you can see that the top 5 mining pools can collude in being a single entity to "control" the blockchain (I believe this is called a Sybil attack [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_attack]). Now keeping incentives in mind, the idea is that people using bitcoin have faith in the system. That gives bitcoins value. Miners get paid in bitcoin. If they were to manipulate the blockchain, that would most likely cause bitcoin's userbase to lose faith in the system and thus what the miners would be stealing would suddenly have little to no value.

I'm not positive, but I recall hearing that pools have been intentionally been made smaller to keep users' faith in the system. Perhaps the goal of these majority mining power is not to steal bitcoin but censor certain users? That may be a bit more complicated depending on the users' opinions on a case-by-case basis. Fun stuff :)

Re: In praise of cash

#106
post #4

In my experience as a college student, it is exceedingly rare to use cash, especially cash in amounts greater than $5, for anything other than crime. While you can argue that one should be able to reasonably break laws and not get caught - anything else is a surveillance state and there is value to discretionary enforcement - I wouldn't characterize criticism of cash as just manipulative. For example, on my campus, t…

The real world isn't your college campus with everything provided. Cash is not rare in the real world, that's why there are so many ATMs!

Re: In praise of cash

#107
post #4

In my experience as a college student, it is exceedingly rare to use cash, especially cash in amounts greater than $5, for anything other than crime. While you can argue that one should be able to reasonably break laws and not get caught - anything else is a surveillance state and there is value to discretionary enforcement - I wouldn't characterize criticism of cash as just manipulative. For example, on my campus, t…

>In my experience as a college student, it is exceedingly rare to use cash, especially cash in amounts greater than $5, for anything other than crime.

You must live in a bubble then. I live in a beach town where there are many small restaurants, souvenir stores etc. that only take cash. (It's not a problem for the tourists because there are many ATMs). Once you leave your bubble there are also farm stands, yard sales and so on.

Re: In praise of cash

#108
post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

I get it, but think of what you're getting in return. The example in the article, about the Coke vending machine. Imagine in the past, before vending machines - the only way you would be able to buy a Coke in that particular area would be if there was enough foot traffic to justify a full time real human being to sit there all day, with inventory of soft drinks, and exchange your cash for them. The opportunity cost a…

An electronic payments system-based vending machine is risker (where the risk is to your ability as a consumer to get a coke on demand) than the current model (coin operated vending machine) since it depends on connectivity to the payments network to function. This is easily interrupted through malice, negligence, or oversight. In my experience coin op vending machines by and large work; bill readers are hit and miss; card reading machines almost never function.

(BTW not downvoting you, but your comment does inexplicably ignore coin op machines which are an existent, good solution.)

Re: In praise of cash

#109
post #78
post #9

The core concept to remember I think is that there are two ways to pay for things: * Ways that involve cash or cash equivalents * Ways where a purchase requires the permission of someone else Just think of the word authorization, which is a required element of essentially all non-cash transactions. It has the word authority embedded right in it. If you're OK with that concept, you are necessarily OK with the idea tha…

A cashless society would be an attempt to create a society that lacks basic economic freedom, but it would also fail. People will simply return to barter, and the use of whatever precious metals/stones/etc are hot that year.

> People will simply return to barter.

In what societies have humans used barter?

I suspect we would instead use something like tobacco, laundry detergent, or startup t-shirts as cash or we would keep a mental register of who owes whom a favor.

Re: In praise of cash

#110
In a rare moment of being in favor of centralization, this article has me wanting almost immediate government takeover of credit / banking systems, as they control cash monies.

The only other instance is pharmaceuticals, that industry being "for profit" is nothing but bad news.

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