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Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

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Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#51

Post by kazagistar »

ekianjo wrote: post #38
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely. But pre-existing (or developed, since some don't turn up until one's 20's) mental health problems are a bit different now, aren't they? I'm not comfortable with these folks being in prison before they've had proper mental health care, honestly. Most folks with mental disorders are OK once they are stable with medication and sometimes need support to make sure they take such medication. We should more like…

> a live-in mental health hospital Much more expensive and there are much less investors for such facilities. So it's not going to be a solution anytime soon.

Right, so let's torture the mentally ill patients to save a bit of tax money. Seems like the right solution.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#52

Post by jMyles »

Stories of torture at the hands of the state, in a domestic correctional context, are everywhere. This is a confirmed, observable phenomenon, not subject to much conjecture or doubt.

And it's time to smash it. Thinking that some slow, incremental legislative progress is going to fix this problem is pulling a blanket of privilege over eyes and ears.

When Washington falls, which it will, we must immediately turn to our states and ensure - by whatever nonviolent means necessary - that they do not fill in the budget vacuum currently filled by a hodgepodge of federal grants and instead close prisons en masse.

In the mean time, we need to form pen-pal relationships with prisoners, shame people who decide to work in the prison industry (I know this sounds cruel, but it's less cruel than refraining from doing so), and speak out in square company.

Enough is enough.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#53

Post by JoeAltmaier »

cooper12 wrote: post #49
peteretep wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bleeding heart liberal, but: > Do these people not think > about how cruel solitary > confinement is? If it was effective, and its use wasn't at a guard's whim, I wouldn't really care. But it's not effective, and there doesn't appear to be proper oversight, and that's what upsets me.

Sorry, I don't care what you label yourself as, but if you think it's justifiable to use cruel punishment as long as its "effective", you might be a bit morally defective. Torture is a human rights violation.

Torture has historically been thought to be the use of pain to coerce. Lets admit it, we use all sorts of pressures to coerce people. We can't label them all as 'torture'.

Don't get me wrong, I think solitary is wrong. And if we redefine 'torture' to mean 'permanently disfiguring a person mentally or physically for coercive purposes' then it neatly fits.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#54

Post by virtualwhys »

Also see: This Blinding Absence of Light[1], true story of an Morrocan coup attempt gone wrong, and the 18 year punishment that ensued.

Disturbing and beautiful account; it's amazing what humans can endure, pushing toward the inner light amidst its complete absence.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Blinding_Absence_of_Light

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#55

Post by entropyneur »

spangry wrote: post #35
entropyneur wrote: post #9

On the intellectual level I have absolutely no reason to doubt the scientific evidence or the countless accounts of people who were subjected to solitary imprisonment and describe it as torture and worst thing that ever happened to them. I remember a documentary (probably NatGeo's "America's hardest prisons") episode where a violent and seemingly fearless thug was reduced to a crying baby by 2 weeks of solitary confi…

I kinda get where you're coming from. Just to preface this, I agree that the practice of solitary confinement in prison is basically tantamount to torture and should be legally prohibited or severely restricted and regulated. That out of the way... For me it might come down to the details of solitary confinement. From the sounds of it, I probably wouldn't want to be in the kind of solitary confinement that's imposed…

> Are you a particularly introverted person (in the Myers-Briggs sense of the word)?

I am introverted, but not to an outstanding degree.

After a bit of reflection I am coming to the conclusion that it all rather has to do with my unhealthy level of aversion to conflict. I feel sick even when seeing it in movies, sometimes to the point of having to pause. And I am also under the (likely false and irrational) impression that conflict is what the daily life in prison all about.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#56

Post by soundwave106 »

praptak wrote: post #13
jake314159 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't someone with serious mental problems be in a hospital not a prison?

Obiously they should. The article hints at the sad reason they aren't: "...economical, not compassionate, reasons...". It's just cheaper to lock them up.

Housing even non-solitary confinement prisoners is pretty expensive though. Average cost is about $30K a year per prisoner in the United States (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/nyregion/citys-annual-cost...). Some areas of course are way more expensive: In NYC, it's $168K per prisoner per year apparently.

I think part of the issue here is that, in the past, mental health institutions itself had their own huge issues. There was a large movement to move away from mental health institutions, at least in the US, in the 1970s as a result (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation). The unfortunate consequence is that, instead of community-based mental health systems rising up to address the wrongs of the mental health institution, as envisioned by the de-institutionalization movement, the prison has ended up somewhat taken its place (https://thesocietypages.org/sociologylens/2012/07/03/deinsti...).

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#57

Post by amorphid »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #45
ekianjo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a minority of criminals who have serious mental problems and who are likely to commit crime again as soon as they are out. Are you confortable with that?

I'd call into question whether such people should be punished at all, for what's arguably not their fault.

A not-trolling, serious question...

If they shouldn't be punished, what would you recommend? I don't have a well-informed suggestion.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#58

Post by TeMPOraL »

amorphid wrote: post #57
TeMPOraL wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd call into question whether such people should be punished at all, for what's arguably not their fault.

A not-trolling, serious question... If they shouldn't be punished, what would you recommend? I don't have a well-informed suggestion.

The way I see it, there are two aspects you want to balance: safety of the society and cost of ensuring that safety.

When you have a person that commits crimes due to severe mental issues, you could observe that:

- punishment won't work as a deterrent

- punishment definitely won't work as resocialization tool

- it's of questionable morality to blame a person for things they have no control over

Applying punishment in such cases will cost money and make the criminal suffer, for no gain in the safety of the society. I.e. it's literally spending money just to mistreat someone.

So what are the alternatives? If the condition is treatable, let's treat it instead. If the condition is not currently treatable, you can isolate the person from society - but this will already win you all the safety you can get, so there's no point in punishing them further.

Of course the issue is complex, because most variables here have pretty blurry borders.

--

Anyway; basically, I'm of the opinion that one should use methods effective for the purpose at hand. If your goal is to ensure safety of the society, punishing mentally ill people is not helping. On the other hand, if your goal is to give the society a sense of revenge, then by all means torture people - just be honest about what the real goal is.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#59

Post by SilasX »

ploggingdev wrote: post #2

> the federal government and about half of the states in the country began restricting their use of solitary. These efforts gained bipartisan support for economical, not compassionate, reasons That is the most telling line about how the Government thinks. Do these people not think about how cruel solitary confinement is? The best way to make people understand these cruel practices is to imagine themselves in solitary…

I don't want to be imprisoned, so should I oppose all imprisonment?

Edit: sorry if that came off as blunt, but this seems like a legit problem with your application of the Golden Rule. Could you reformulate it, or explain why nothing undesirable should ever happen to anyone "because you wouldn't like it"?

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#60

Post by intralizee »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #44
intralizee wrote: post #31

I had an experience with solitary confinement and I was tormented by it. The memories don't effect me much anymore and I now can write about it. It resulted from a mental break down, causing an arrest which was not justified legally but the officer at the scene was annoyed by me. The charge were eventually dismissed but still haunts me like it would for any person. I'm transgender which is related to the situation; a…

I'm sorry you've had to endure this and am happy you are doing a bit better. Thank you very much for sharing the experience.

The sad thing was how so many inmates there were so kind and the stories they shared were so awful.

Jail is really just a cheap way to justify money not going to healthcare for improving mental health of people that need it.

US has to dry up all the tax money for war it seems. :/

Also thanks!

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