I like to cover myself with some crazy question and think about them. For example, what would look like the thing that would make people go "oh this looks good enough to replace UNIX". Don't get me wrong, I am big fan of UNIX, but I hope I will be alive around the time(but I doubt that) when we will see some new thing which will make UNIX feel dated. Now, some of you might jump and say "Oh, but UNIX already feels dat…
The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
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Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
They all are, but this book dates from a time when Unix had nothing like the absolute dominance of paradigm it does now. True, by the early-mid 90s, the Unix model had effectively won - but there remained a very large number of people with fond memories of other platforms, many of which did at least some things better than any contemporary or even modern Unix.
>there remained a very large number of people with fond memories of other platforms, many of which did at least some things better than any contemporary or even modern Unix. Yeah, that's what I'm curious about. Could you name names? :)
About as close as you can get and stay relevant to the modern world is Emacs, which, while a lot of fun, I gather from those with real Lisp-M experience isn't really all that close. And it says something, I think, that the next former Lisp-M user I meet who has a bad word to say about that platform will be the first one.
In general, the book does these systems more justice than I can, and it's a fun read in general. I recommend it quite highly - in those areas it covers where I have experience of my own, I found little with which to disagree and much with which to laugh.
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#43I like to cover myself with some crazy question and think about them. For example, what would look like the thing that would make people go "oh this looks good enough to replace UNIX". Don't get me wrong, I am big fan of UNIX, but I hope I will be alive around the time(but I doubt that) when we will see some new thing which will make UNIX feel dated. Now, some of you might jump and say "Oh, but UNIX already feels dat…
I just hope that whatever replaces *NIX is still free software. Your computer OS is the last thing that should be controlled by corporate gatekeepers.
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#44can anyone give a first-hand historical perspective on this, regarding what was going on and how this was seen in 1994?
On the consumer and small business end, there were DOS/Windows boxes, WindowsNT boxes, and Macs, of course. But OS/2 was still a thing, Win95 was around the corner, and, while on the decline by 1994, Atari and Amiga devices were still somewhat sensible options for e.g. music or gaming a few years earlier.
On the corporate end, and more saliently for this specific book, you still had plenty of mainframes and such around, and an equally rich variety of options. Some of these computers were called Lisp machines, and built around Lisp rather than Unix/C. They had started to lose traction after the onset of AI Winter:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_machine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter
The authors of the book basically are Lisp aficionados who mourn the good old days when they could get by using elegant Lisp machines instead of clunky, user hostile Unix boxes.
The book itself is an entertaining read insofar as I can remember. (My memory might be playing tricks on me though; I read it 10-15 years ago.)
The authors obviously cherry pick to maximize Unix bashing. The authors make a number of very valid points - some of which still apply today. The tone is usually playful. But then, at times, contempt with a pinch of self-importance emerges, and you're left wondering why you're bothering to continue reading a 300+ page long rant... only to realize that the points made are so obnoxiously valid (or, at least, were when I read it) that you continue.
Dennis Ritchie's anti-forward passage return the favor, too:
> Your book is a pudding stuffed with apposite observations, many well-conceived. Like excrement, it contains enough undigested nuggets of nutrition to sustain life for some. But it is not a tasty pie: it reeks too much of contempt and of envy.
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#45While entertaining, I'm left with the following question: if not UNIX, then what? Are there any successful non-UNIX-y OSes that are worth checking out? I may embarrass myself here, but I was under the impression that BSD, Plan 9, Solaris and HP-UX were all UNIX-y ...
- Amiga OS / Morph OS
- Menuet OS / Kolibri OS. minimalistic and 100% written in Assembly.
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah but try and figure out how you'd do better... efficient.ly. Over the network...
You can't do opengl efficiently over the network. At least xorg can't. Most applications uses opengl these days. For me, I've been using Linux fulltime for the last 15 years and I have never, not even once, had the need to connect to a remote X11 server. ssh has always been enough for me.
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
>there remained a very large number of people with fond memories of other platforms, many of which did at least some things better than any contemporary or even modern Unix. Yeah, that's what I'm curious about. Could you name names? :)
I still miss things from AmigaOS (still being developed, but ultra-niche; with "clones" in the form of AROS - which is open source - and MorphOS). Things like ubiquituous scriptability of apps via Arexx (the language is awful, but you don't need to use the language much to call the APIs), heavy multi-threading throughout the OS, datatypes (new image format? drop a library in the right directory and every application…
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#48Especially the chapter on NFS was a fun read. When I first set up my home server, I had my desktop lock up completely a few times when the server became unavailable, because of NFS. (Then I found out one can mount NFS shares in interruptible mode so the requests will eventually time out... but it was so annoying up to that point.)
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
>there remained a very large number of people with fond memories of other platforms, many of which did at least some things better than any contemporary or even modern Unix. Yeah, that's what I'm curious about. Could you name names? :)
Amiga OS, BeOS
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except that GNU is Not UNIX and many companies still have UNIX boxes without GNU on them.
Correct. And the last time I came across one of those I compiled and used modern tools. Because even 20 year old Linux versions had tab complete and a vi that worked with directional keys
I do occasionally ssh into boxes were I am a lame user without compilers installed.