The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
31–40 of 316 posts
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#32Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#33Unix is weird because it evolved organically and without a unified direction. But it remains because power and familiarity beat user experience. Yes, the "pure" Unix tools are awful, GNU improved on their usability a lot. But they're still a simple command that does something. Except Autotools. Those should burn in eternal damnation.
Except that GNU is Not UNIX and many companies still have UNIX boxes without GNU on them.
I worked in a Solaris shop that had gnu coreutils and packages installed everywhere with a prefix, and another place running openbsd which had the same.
gecho, gcat, gln etc;
I'm pretty sure gnu coreutils can be built on any Unix-like OS.
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#34Don't get me wrong, I am big fan of UNIX, but I hope I will be alive around the time(but I doubt that) when we will see some new thing which will make UNIX feel dated. Now, some of you might jump and say "Oh, but UNIX already feels dated", and that would make conversation on it's own, but I think people say that more because they are bored with UNIX, or they dislike certain segments.
And what breaks my heart is general disinterest in Operating systems with young developers/students (I am student too, but I find those things to be most interesting of all university courses). I see very little people doing OS work today. I wasn't there to see how it was in 80s & 90s, but from what I've read, you had much, much more choice, but their quality was debatable. Why we always consider Operating Systems to be "solved" thing? Is it because the way Von Neumann architecture works, we tend to abstract computer as an entity in the way that gave us UNIX and that we won't be able to discover and make something different but as capable as UNIX without changing our way of thinking about what computer is and how it works? Did we got used to computers as they are, especially newer generations, taking things for granted, and just going forward with what they inherited?
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#35Unix is weird because it evolved organically and without a unified direction. But it remains because power and familiarity beat user experience. Yes, the "pure" Unix tools are awful, GNU improved on their usability a lot. But they're still a simple command that does something. Except Autotools. Those should burn in eternal damnation.
Except that GNU is Not UNIX and many companies still have UNIX boxes without GNU on them.
And the last time I came across one of those I compiled and used modern tools.
Because even 20 year old Linux versions had tab complete and a vi that worked with directional keys
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
They all are, but this book dates from a time when Unix had nothing like the absolute dominance of paradigm it does now. True, by the early-mid 90s, the Unix model had effectively won - but there remained a very large number of people with fond memories of other platforms, many of which did at least some things better than any contemporary or even modern Unix.
>there remained a very large number of people with fond memories of other platforms, many of which did at least some things better than any contemporary or even modern Unix. Yeah, that's what I'm curious about. Could you name names? :)
Things like ubiquituous scriptability of apps via Arexx (the language is awful, but you don't need to use the language much to call the APIs), heavy multi-threading throughout the OS, datatypes (new image format? drop a library in the right directory and every application that knows how to load images via datatypes can load it; same for text/documents, sound etc.), assigns (think of it a bit like $PATH, but not limited to a single variable, and enforced OS-level, so e.g. C: in AmigaOS works roughly like $PATH, but by default there's also LIBS: for libraries, T: for temporary storage, CLIPS: for the clipboard, and by convention people tend to have e.g. WORK: pointing wherever you want your project data - you can define your own, and redefine them at will, and they can refer to eachother, so e.g. your "C:" may refer to System:C and Work:C (at the same time), and either System: or Work: or both can be either partitions or labels assigned to removable media (in which case the OS may ask you to insert the right disk if you reference it - it can reference a specific disk rather than just the drive), or to another assign).
Or workspaces as an OS-level construct (Screens) that applications can open, close and manipulate, either for "private" use for just its own windows or by opening public screens that can be used to combine windows from multiple applications.
Or third party standards like XPK, which lets any application transparently support file compression - similar to datatypes you can drop in a library forany compression algorithms and all the apps gains support for it (there are several similar standards for e.g. archivers, disk images etc.).
Current mainstream OS's still feel very backwards in many ways after being used to those things.
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#37If I ever need to feel good about myself as a software developer, I only ever need to read this book's chapter about the X window system.
Yeah but try and figure out how you'd do better... efficient.ly. Over the network...
For me, I've been using Linux fulltime for the last 15 years and I have never, not even once, had the need to connect to a remote X11 server. ssh has always been enough for me.
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#38If I ever need to feel good about myself as a software developer, I only ever need to read this book's chapter about the X window system.
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#39It's interesting that no one blinks twice at the thought of using a decades-old operating system - it's "mature", "battle tested", "proven over time" or some other phrase. On the other hand, programming languages that are decades old are looked upon as antiquated and not fit for modern problems, so we create new languages and discard the old ones, including forgetting useful ideas those languages contained. Sometimes…
Is it possible to do the same things in C that we can in Ruby, PHP or Node? Absolutely. But can it be written in the same time frame?
While I'm sure there are HNers out there who can - or who at least claim they can ;) - let's ask ourselves if that's really broadly truthful outside of trivial example applications. I'd wager 'no'.
Those higher level languages might 'forget' something in the past and 'rediscover' it but I feel like that's kind of a very minor sub-plot in the larger story of the usefulness of their abstraction and ability to represent more powerful ideas in less lines of code.
* - read 'web'. Old and low level languages are still obviously used in a wide variety of projects and industries.
Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah but try and figure out how you'd do better... efficient.ly. Over the network...
The contemporary windowing system NeWS is worth a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS Its architecture was more similar to modern web apps, with the UI running code and processing events on the client machine.