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Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

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Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#11

Post by Senderman »

richmarr wrote: post #7
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do these people not think about how cruel solitary confinement is? According to the article: "Researchers believe it damages the body and brain as well, but they can't test this hypothesis, because what we do to prisoners every day—house them in prolonged isolation—is illegal to do to laboratory animals. It is against the law to treat rats the way we treat people in solitary." Yup. That's right. Illegal for lab rats.…

> The entire point of the American justice system is to make people suffer... It's interesting that the comparitively religious-leaning US has a more punishment-centric penal system, whereas the comparatively secular Europe leans towards rehabilitation. Considering the "vengeance is mine" thing and the Christian forgiveness thing you would have thought it would be the other way around.

I was raised Catholic•, in Ireland. The entire narrative is built around the idea of going to heaven while ~all the bad people~ burn forever elsewhere. From what I can see, in the context of the church, "Forgiveness" is a means of keeping control over people who feel guilty/scared. So, I'm not surprised by the comparison you noticed.

• Disclaimer: Clearly, I'm still more than a little bitter about it.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#12

Post by venomsnake »

ekianjo wrote: post #8
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do these people not think about how cruel solitary confinement is? According to the article: "Researchers believe it damages the body and brain as well, but they can't test this hypothesis, because what we do to prisoners every day—house them in prolonged isolation—is illegal to do to laboratory animals. It is against the law to treat rats the way we treat people in solitary." Yup. That's right. Illegal for lab rats.…

There is a minority of criminals who have serious mental problems and who are likely to commit crime again as soon as they are out. Are you confortable with that?

In Norway they don't have life sentence. But they are able to extend it if needed/deemed to be still dangerous.

Brevik is not getting out ever.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#13

Post by praptak »

jake314159 wrote: post #10
ekianjo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a minority of criminals who have serious mental problems and who are likely to commit crime again as soon as they are out. Are you confortable with that?

Shouldn't someone with serious mental problems be in a hospital not a prison?

Obiously they should. The article hints at the sad reason they aren't: "...economical, not compassionate, reasons...". It's just cheaper to lock them up.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#14

Post by csydas »

ekianjo wrote: post #8
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do these people not think about how cruel solitary confinement is? According to the article: "Researchers believe it damages the body and brain as well, but they can't test this hypothesis, because what we do to prisoners every day—house them in prolonged isolation—is illegal to do to laboratory animals. It is against the law to treat rats the way we treat people in solitary." Yup. That's right. Illegal for lab rats.…

There is a minority of criminals who have serious mental problems and who are likely to commit crime again as soon as they are out. Are you confortable with that?

I think a corollary to adjusting and modernizing the penal process is also providing better support for those who need mental assistance. For many of these individuals, though they are dangerous, the current system basically dooms them to a life time of torture or being cast out into the streets.

It's a vicious cycle since homelessness/the mentally disturbed are an issue everyone wants to go away, but not spend a lot of money on.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#15

Post by fsiefken »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #3

"There are still significant variations within Europe in the maximum permissible duration for solitary confinement allowed as punishment. In Belgium, eight days is the maximum permissible duration, whereas Finland allows 14 days; Poland, England, and Wales allow 28; France and Estonia allow 45; and Ireland allows up to 60. But overall, the dangers of solitary confinement have been recognized." [1] [1] http://www.brow…

Regarding Sweden, does Breivik's prison sentence and stay (solitary confinement) constitute torture? "1 March 2017, the Court of Appeals upheld part of Brevik`s appeal that Article 3 of the convention on human rights had been breached, that he has been subjected to degrading treatment but that his solitary confinement did not violate Breivik's rights" (source: wikipedia) Or what about the solitary confinement of Gottfrid Svartholm, co-founder of ThePirateBay? https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/the-swedes-have-the-pirat...

Regarding The Netherlands, the killer of Theo Van Gogh, Mohammed B., is also held in solitary confinement. Do all of these constitute torture or an inhumane treatment?

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#16

Post by interfixus »

entropyneur wrote: post #9

On the intellectual level I have absolutely no reason to doubt the scientific evidence or the countless accounts of people who were subjected to solitary imprisonment and describe it as torture and worst thing that ever happened to them. I remember a documentary (probably NatGeo's "America's hardest prisons") episode where a violent and seemingly fearless thug was reduced to a crying baby by 2 weeks of solitary confi…

Absolutely. I am sociable enough, but given the choice, I'll take solitude any day.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#17

Post by bambax »

interfixus wrote: post #16
entropyneur wrote: post #9

On the intellectual level I have absolutely no reason to doubt the scientific evidence or the countless accounts of people who were subjected to solitary imprisonment and describe it as torture and worst thing that ever happened to them. I remember a documentary (probably NatGeo's "America's hardest prisons") episode where a violent and seemingly fearless thug was reduced to a crying baby by 2 weeks of solitary confi…

Absolutely. I am sociable enough, but given the choice, I'll take solitude any day.

I would tend to agree with both comments but I think it's because we don't know what we're talking about.

We all have experienced being in a closed space with people we don't know or like, but we usually have never experienced complete isolation for extended periods of time.

I need lots of time alone, but being absolutely alone for two weeks and having zero interaction with anyone or even an animal or a plant? That's something else entirely.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#18

Post by 3131s »

entropyneur wrote: post #9

On the intellectual level I have absolutely no reason to doubt the scientific evidence or the countless accounts of people who were subjected to solitary imprisonment and describe it as torture and worst thing that ever happened to them. I remember a documentary (probably NatGeo's "America's hardest prisons") episode where a violent and seemingly fearless thug was reduced to a crying baby by 2 weeks of solitary confi…

I'm guessing in your case it's either a misunderstanding of what solitary would be like, or a misunderstanding of how bad it would be to share a cell with the average prisoner.

Solitary is not just getting the room to yourself. It's 24 hours a day of total isolation and really nothing at all to do. Your human contact would be limited to having guards slide food trays into your cell and once a day having a guard escort you to and from a slightly larger rec room (and you are alone there also). You would not have access to amenities that other prisoners have, like TV, computers, or possibly even books. I have seen descriptions of some solitary cells that are dark 24/7, and some that remain lit all day. Some people are in solitary for decades. I think staring at the wall all day and not having a meaningful conversation for years on end easily constitutes torture.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#19

Post by andyjohnson0 »

entropyneur wrote: post #9

On the intellectual level I have absolutely no reason to doubt the scientific evidence or the countless accounts of people who were subjected to solitary imprisonment and describe it as torture and worst thing that ever happened to them. I remember a documentary (probably NatGeo's "America's hardest prisons") episode where a violent and seemingly fearless thug was reduced to a crying baby by 2 weeks of solitary confi…

> I'd choose solitary over sharing a cell with others

Is it possible that you would regret this after five or ten or more years or almost no contact with another person?

Maybe you're focusing on the physical sharing aspect at the expense of not fully comprehending the more abstract time aspect. Which is totally understandable: I don't know how anyone can realistically imagine what this experience would be like.

Re: Buried Alive: Stories from Inside Solitary Confinement

#20

Post by olfox »

fsiefken wrote: post #15
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #3

"There are still significant variations within Europe in the maximum permissible duration for solitary confinement allowed as punishment. In Belgium, eight days is the maximum permissible duration, whereas Finland allows 14 days; Poland, England, and Wales allow 28; France and Estonia allow 45; and Ireland allows up to 60. But overall, the dangers of solitary confinement have been recognized." [1] [1] http://www.brow…

Regarding Sweden, does Breivik's prison sentence and stay (solitary confinement) constitute torture? "1 March 2017, the Court of Appeals upheld part of Brevik`s appeal that Article 3 of the convention on human rights had been breached, that he has been subjected to degrading treatment but that his solitary confinement did not violate Breivik's rights" (source: wikipedia) Or what about the solitary confinement of Gott…

Breivik is Norwegian.
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