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The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]

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Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]

#21
post #6
post #3

If I ever need to feel good about myself as a software developer, I only ever need to read this book's chapter about the X window system.

Yeah but try and figure out how you'd do better... efficient.ly. Over the network...

The contemporary windowing system NeWS is worth a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS

Its architecture was more similar to modern web apps, with the UI running code and processing events on the client machine.

Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]

#22
post #21
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but try and figure out how you'd do better... efficient.ly. Over the network...

The contemporary windowing system NeWS is worth a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS Its architecture was more similar to modern web apps, with the UI running code and processing events on the client machine.

Ohhhhhhh good answer.

One day it'll win :) Actually I think we could do NEWS in JS. Somehow I don't feel that would make you happy tho :P

Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all are, but this book dates from a time when Unix had nothing like the absolute dominance of paradigm it does now. True, by the early-mid 90s, the Unix model had effectively won - but there remained a very large number of people with fond memories of other platforms, many of which did at least some things better than any contemporary or even modern Unix.

>there remained a very large number of people with fond memories of other platforms, many of which did at least some things better than any contemporary or even modern Unix. Yeah, that's what I'm curious about. Could you name names? :)

ITS is often mentioned and I suppose PR1MOS (which was descended from ITS)

Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]

#24
post #3

If I ever need to feel good about myself as a software developer, I only ever need to read this book's chapter about the X window system.

Everyone that dislikes Win32 should program directly with Xlib and Athena, and rejoice of the experience.

Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]

#25
post #16

While entertaining, I'm left with the following question: if not UNIX, then what? Are there any successful non-UNIX-y OSes that are worth checking out? I may embarrass myself here, but I was under the impression that BSD, Plan 9, Solaris and HP-UX were all UNIX-y ...

Basically only two paradigms survived the 90s. The Unix way (via Linux, BSD, Darwin) and the VMS way (via Windows NT). Everything else is either ultra-niche, dying, a mainframe so ancient and terrifying nobody will go near it, or only of marginal historical import. Bear in mind that when this book was written, the average desktop PC was running MS-DOS, and possibly Windows 3.1 if it was new and powerful enough. What…

The Xerox way also influenced Windows, OS X, iOS and Android and to certain extent ChromeOS.

In regards to IDEs, frameworks, programming languages culture.

Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]

#26
post #21
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but try and figure out how you'd do better... efficient.ly. Over the network...

The contemporary windowing system NeWS is worth a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS Its architecture was more similar to modern web apps, with the UI running code and processing events on the client machine.

I remember it. It was far prettier than motif at that time. And Framemaker was so pleasant to use compared to Word.

Both NeWS and NeXT were using Display Postscript (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_PostScript). Do you know if NeWS was an inspiration for NeXT ?

Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]

#27
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but try and figure out how you'd do better... efficient.ly. Over the network...

Yes; the chapter actually made me admire the design.

The whole book was like that for me. I think that's what it's all about - our love/hate relationship with Unix(-like systems).

Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all are, but this book dates from a time when Unix had nothing like the absolute dominance of paradigm it does now. True, by the early-mid 90s, the Unix model had effectively won - but there remained a very large number of people with fond memories of other platforms, many of which did at least some things better than any contemporary or even modern Unix.

>there remained a very large number of people with fond memories of other platforms, many of which did at least some things better than any contemporary or even modern Unix. Yeah, that's what I'm curious about. Could you name names? :)

Amiga OS, BeOS

Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]

#29

It's interesting that no one blinks twice at the thought of using a decades-old operating system - it's "mature", "battle tested", "proven over time" or some other phrase. On the other hand, programming languages that are decades old are looked upon as antiquated and not fit for modern problems, so we create new languages and discard the old ones, including forgetting useful ideas those languages contained. Sometimes…

That's the fundamental difference between infrastructure folks - inherently conservative, keep it running, 9 9s of uptime - and developers - restless, ohhhhh shiny, seekers of the new and novel.

Re: The Unix-Haters Handbook (1994) [pdf]

#30

Unix is weird because it evolved organically and without a unified direction. But it remains because power and familiarity beat user experience. Yes, the "pure" Unix tools are awful, GNU improved on their usability a lot. But they're still a simple command that does something. Except Autotools. Those should burn in eternal damnation.

Except that GNU is Not UNIX and many companies still have UNIX boxes without GNU on them.
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