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Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#161

Post by lou1306 »

nihonde wrote: post #158
ux-app wrote: post #13

I'm a HS teacher. I was so happy when my school finally phased out iPads as the designated device for our year 7 students. It's such a rubbish device for content creation. The touchscreen is a POS for anything other than web browsing and casual games. Teaching coding, image manipulation, file manipulation was utterly painful or impossible. Typing on them is beyond painful and of the hundreds of students I taught, few…

If you see iPads as a hindrance to education, you are a terrible teacher. If I had been given access to an iPad at age 10, I would have been completely, endlessly obsessed with the possibilities of it. As it was, I had access to a TRS80 at that age, and I had to fight the fussy old math teacher to get access to it, let alone any meaningful instruction or encouragement to match my curiosity. Meanwhile, the same teache…

Can you code (and teach how to code) on an iPad in an efficient and effortless way? The "terrible teacher" didn't just bash on the device, they listed some use cases for which it is clearly not the best tool around.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#162

Post by [deleted] »

decasteve wrote: post #19

I replaced my kids' iPads because of the awful hunched posture it precipitates (as shown in the 2nd picture in the article). Also, after an initial enthusiasm for iMovie and Swift Playgrounds wore off, they gravitated towards the more distracting apps and games, youtube and netflix, etc. Having them sit upright, with good posture, at a desktop computer puts them in a different frame of mind when it comes to what they…

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#163

Post by _pmf_ »

metafunctor wrote: post #111

The sad thing is that in practice, iPads are mostly used as substitutes for books. That's completely backwards. It reminds me how "multimedia CDs" were supposed to revolutionize teaching in the 90s. They ended up being picture books on a computer, with silly animations and sound effects on mouse hover added on top. Computers and tablets could be a great pedagogic tool for many things, like exploring maths concepts in…

> They ended up being picture books on a computer, with silly animations and sound effects on mouse hover added on top.

They did not just end up that was; they also started that way.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#164

Post by TeMPOraL »

taurath wrote: post #135
ux-app wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, where do you live/teach? "Year 7" I'm in Australia. Nationally we are transitioning to a R-6 = Primary School, 7-12 = High School model. My school is a little unorthodox. We're a private school with a 6-12 shared campus which is why I had experience teaching younger students even though I am HS trained. > What to your mind would not be rubbish? Either Mac or PC is fine in my books. Anything that allows them t…

I think the key reason tablets were chosen wasn't that it was the best learning tool, but it was the best learning tool that won't cause a maintenance nightmare for school IT when kids go crazy with viruses and bricking their laptops whenever they were late for a homework assignment. Ipads are relatively hard to fuck up fron a software side, and if they do you just do a reset.

This does match my usual experience of IT philosophy in educational institutions that says that the easiest way to maintain infrastructure is to not let people use it. That it defeats the whole raison d'être of that infrastructure is apparently beyond their care.

It's like a city would give a company a long-term contract for repairs to a stretch of important road, and the company started by locking it down and deciding that they'll profit more and work less if the road is not used and thus won't require so much repairs.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#165

Post by brusch64 »

thr0waway1239 wrote: post #58

I don't quite understand why people thought iPads were good for content creation in the first place. Also, I think Apple really missed a trick by not going after the education market with a more suitable device. With Windows, you never know what havoc the next update around the corner is going to wreak. And Chromebooks are still quite limited in many different things. By merely having a serious presence in this marke…

It seems Apple is not to interested in any special market. What I am reading they are losing their strong position in Audio and Video creation too.

They are living too well with their generic phones, tablets and laptops.

Never have really used one of each.. but why is a Chromebook more limited than a iPad ?

The Chromebook has USB Ports, it has a Keyboard, you can add a mouse easily. In my experience tablets are just good for passive media consumption, light web browsing and light gaming. It is more limited than a PC, but more versatile than an iPad.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#166

Post by TeMPOraL »

dpark wrote: post #32
ux-app wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, where do you live/teach? "Year 7" I'm in Australia. Nationally we are transitioning to a R-6 = Primary School, 7-12 = High School model. My school is a little unorthodox. We're a private school with a 6-12 shared campus which is why I had experience teaching younger students even though I am HS trained. > What to your mind would not be rubbish? Either Mac or PC is fine in my books. Anything that allows them t…

Thanks for clarifying. I agree that Chromebooks are not the ideal learning device for coding. I was thinking general schooling and glossed over your earlier comment about teaching coding. I think they can probably work there, but you're right that a "real" computer is a better choice for that.

I would expand coding to include general computer use. Sure, you can teach biology or physics or English using whatever device is most convenient. But if you're trying to teach the workings and use of computers (i.e. what most people will have on computer classes), using iPads and Chromebooks is teaching them lies that come from user-hostile pseudoabstractions.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#167

Post by sundvor »

ptaipale wrote: post #73
skookumchuck wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schools are always looking for ways that teachers can teach without doing work and students can learn without doing work, and computers are the magic tool that promises to do that. It's like using a forklift to raise the barbell. Sure, the barbell goes up, but you don't get any stronger.

Yes. However, if your goal is to learn to lift up large masses, learning to operate a forklift is a good thing to do. (I cannot write about a "forklift operator" without asking if you have seen this German "educational" film. It starts slowly, but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oB6DN5dYWo )

That escalated quickly enough. :))

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#168

Post by christoph »

simonh wrote: post #121
paulddraper wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a middle-school student in the early 2000s, I helped part-time with IT at a Mac-only school. Macintoshes, iMacs, eMacs. People were less familiar with Macs than PCs, but from an IT perspective, it was heaven. There were only a few models, they were reliable, and everything "just worked" together. The most common snag was attempting to get floppies to work with people's PCs from home. Sad to see the Apple desktops…

>Sad to see the Apple desktops gone. Nobody goes to the Apple Stores anymore, they're too crowded.

Apple need to take a long hard look at the nose dive their customer service has taken in the last few years. I love Apple kit, I really do, but Apple the company are starting to become increasingly difficult to like and do any sort of business with.

I have many personal data points on this, but below is the worst i've encountered in any retail store in my life:

I went into an Apple Store to purchase 3 (yes, 3) Macbook Pro's (old style, they were in stock at the time) in early December (for some new staff that were starting), knowing exactly the model I needed. I was told I would need to make an appointment and come back in 90mins. Really? A customer comes into your shop, looking at spending over £7k without hesitation and you say go away?!?

I said to the store member that I thought this was unacceptable, it would take someone literally 2 minutes to go into the storeroom, pull them off the shelf and swipe my card.

The response was that it was now the lead up to Christmas and they were very busy and there was nothing they could do about it. My response was that they need to tell their boss(es) to hire more staff for busy periods.

I walked out without purchasing and didn't return.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#169

Post by antfarm »

joezydeco wrote: post #84
thr0waway1239 wrote: post #58

I don't quite understand why people thought iPads were good for content creation in the first place. Also, I think Apple really missed a trick by not going after the education market with a more suitable device. With Windows, you never know what havoc the next update around the corner is going to wreak. And Chromebooks are still quite limited in many different things. By merely having a serious presence in this marke…

In my local school district, gDocs is the key for our switch away from iOS devices. We don't even need the chromebooks, Docs will run on older PCs as well. I don't believe any newer/cheaper hardware from Apple will help here.

Shouldn't computers in schools be used for more than just teaching students how to use office tools?

Teaching only boring stuff has great potential to suck the fun out of computer use for them and does not encourage them to explore what it is they might want to do with a computer.

Re: Apple’s Devices Lose Luster in American Classrooms

#170

Post by antfarm »

skookumchuck wrote: post #52

Tablets are great for media consumption. I don't understand how anyone can use them for creation, though. On my desk is the biggest screen I can afford, and a full size keyboard, and I use it all when doing work. As for helping kids learn, I just cannot see how a tablet will help in the classroom.

They are also great for games and game-like applications.

I think learning with computers should include a lot more interaction, experimentation and exploration. Touch-based apps are supporting that due to the direct manipulation of objects they enable.

Their immersive nature also helps concentrate on the task at hand.

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