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Summary of the Amazon S3 Service Disruption

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361–370 of 535 posts

Re: Summary of the Amazon S3 Service Disruption

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah as soon as I read this I felt bad for the employee. I remember writing an update statement without a where clause and having to restore the table from backup. But that was at a company not as advanced as Amazon. Fat fingering a key like that is just crazy (but comforting that even at Amazon it happens) and I'm sure they've fixed that from happening again.

I once brought down our entire production XenServer cluster group by issuing a "shutdown now" in the wrong SSH window. Needless to say it was a bad feeling watching Nagios go crazy and realizing what had just happened.

    root@baz # shutdown now
    W: molly-guard: SSH session detected!
    Please type in hostname of the machine to shutdown: foo
    Good thing I asked; I won't shutdown baz ...
Surprising to see such a simple protection neglected.

Re: Summary of the Amazon S3 Service Disruption

#362

Take a moment to look at the construction of this report. There is no easily readable timeline. It is not discoverable from anywhere outside of social media or directly searching for it. As far as I know, customers were not emailed about this - I certainly wasn't. You're an important business, AWS. Burying outage retrospectives and live service health data is what I expect from a much smaller shop, not the leader in…

It is now indexed by Google, at least. Doesn't look like they are actively trying to hide it.

Re: Summary of the Amazon S3 Service Disruption

#363
post #73
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make error is human. To propagate error to all server in automatic way is #devops - DevOps Borat

I've long said something like "To err is human. To fuck up a million times in a second you need a computer." I may have to upgrade that to take the mighty power of Cloud (TM) into account, though. Billions and trillions of fuck ups per second are now well within reach!

> "To err is human. To fuck up a million times in a second you need a computer."

If you made that up, I tip my hat off to you as payment for all my future uses of the phrase.

Re: Summary of the Amazon S3 Service Disruption

#364

What does everyone use S3 for? I'm genuinely curious. As my experiments with it have left me disappointed with its performance, I'm just not sure what I could use it for. Store massive amounts of data that is infrequently accessed? Well, unfortunately the upload speed I got to the standard rating one was so abysmal it would take too much time to move the data there; and then I suspect the inverse would be pretty bad…

We are storing database backups and static assets (e.g. images in mails) on S3.

Re: Summary of the Amazon S3 Service Disruption

#365
post #8

> At 9:37AM PST, an authorized S3 team member using an established playbook executed a command which was intended to remove a small number of servers for one of the S3 subsystems that is used by the S3 billing process. Unfortunately, one of the inputs to the command was entered incorrectly and a larger set of servers was removed than intended. It remains amazing to me that even with all the layers of automation, the…

Every communication channel has its flaws. CLI is fast and that's why it is a favorite. It is also noisy. If you have to worry about a fat finger, you are using the wrong communication channel or could afford to be a bit more verbose within that channel. That's why rm has safety nets.

Re: Summary of the Amazon S3 Service Disruption

#366
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree testing and automation are good. I think they need to go beyond this to formal verification, for something on this scale and reliability. NASA doesn't make these sorts of mistakes. By the way - this is not just Amazon's problem now. We know the internet has a single point of failure. So does a lot of IoT. When will we experience the first Suicide DevOps?

NASA doesn't make these sorts of mistakes https://www.wired.com/2010/11/1110mars-climate-observer-repo...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OalIW1yL-k

(Specifically https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OalIW1yL-k#t=3m but it's worth watching the whole clip (or even the whole movie) if you haven't seen it before. It's from Terry Gilliam's "Brazil".)

Re: Summary of the Amazon S3 Service Disruption

#367
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the language used though. This is saying very loudly "Look, this isn't the engineer's fault here". It's one thing I miss about Amazon's culture- not blaming people when system's fail. The follow-up doesn't bullshit with "extra training to make sure no one does this again", it says (effectively) "we're going to make this impossible to happen again, even if someone makes a mistake".

This is good. And for the software engineers, great. I've heard from people doing the grunt work at amazon -- warehouse staff -- that Amazon incentivises employees to rat out each other for mishandling, late time etc, fostering intense competition

I spent time in the fulfillment centers, writing software for them. I definitely didn't see that sort of thing. There's no need- the software tracked everything they did. Low performer would be found and retained or 'promoted to customer' without the need for anyone to 'rat out'.

Plus, managing humans in a 'rat out' system would be incredibly inefficient. Now you need lots of employees just to listen to the ratting!

Re: Summary of the Amazon S3 Service Disruption

#368
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah indeed. You know who the one person at Amazon is that I'd expect to never fat finger a sensitive command ever ever again? The guy who managed to fat finger S3 on Tuesday. Firing him over this mistake is worse than pointless, it offers absolution to every other developer and system that helped cause this event.

I'm guessing your comment was inspired by this: http://www.squawkpoint.com/2014/01/criticism/

Not directly, but maybe that was running around in the back of my mind while I responded to it.

Re: Summary of the Amazon S3 Service Disruption

#369

I am unpleasantly surprised that they do not mention why services that should be unrelated to S3 such as SES were impacted as well and what they are doing to reduce such dependencies. From a software development perspective, it makes sense to reuse S3 and rely on it internally if you need object storage, but from an ops perspective, it means that S3 is now a single point of failure and that SES's reliability will alw…

services that should be unrelated to S3 such as SES were impacted I don't think this is particularly surprising. I'd already pretty much assumed that, e.g., a package of code for a Lambda function would be housed in an S3 bucket somewhere. What's really surprising to me is how many of those buckets appear to live in US-EAST-1, and aren't able to keep functioning in a catastrophe by failing over to a different region.

You specify the run region for each of those services and all the other components get restricted to those regions too.

We're in ap-southeast-2 (Sydney) and none of our services were impacted yesterday.

Re: Summary of the Amazon S3 Service Disruption

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the root cause is a UI that allows mistakes like these.

Is it possible to build a UI that will not allow you to make a mistake? If the computer knows exactly what actions would be a mistake, why can't it just do the correct actions (those that aren't a mistake) automatically?

If the computer knows exactly what actions would be a mistake - how? The difference between correct and incorrect (not to mention legal and illegal) is usually inferred from a much wider context than what is accessible to a script. Mind you, in this specific case, Amazon even implies that such a command could have been correct under other circumstances.

So, this means a) strong superhuman AI (good luck), b) deciding from an ambiguous input to one of possibly mistaken actions (good luck mapping all possible correct states), or c) drool-proof interface ("It looks you're trying to shut down S3, would you like some help with that?").

TL;DR: yes, but it's a cure worse than the disease.

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