Chevrolet to offer unlimited data plan with cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Chevrolet to offer unlimited data plan with cars

#61

Post by Spooky23 » Thu, Mar 02, 2017, 9:23 PM UTC

tclancy wrote: post #18

jameskilton wrote: post #8

I recently picked up a Volt which includes this OnStar 4G setup and have to say I'm extremely concerned at how quickly this "my car is on the internet" feature set is spreading. Everything is managed by OnStar through their device that's factory installed into every new Chevy vehicle. They have had security breaches and had to fix white-hat reported vulnerabilities in the past[1]. This system isn't just "4G wifi as a…

Obligatory story: I bought a Camaro when the new ones first came out (2009). I ran into some issues with the radio, found out via forums I was 3 firmware versions behind and then slowly found out car dealers were ill-prepared to be software vendors. They had no idea about the radio updates and their system showed nothing for me against my VIN. This was a common enough experience across the country that one of the cod…

One of my coworkers had some weird bluetooth bug fixed by firmware in her car. Being the hacker she is, she found the firmware, installed it per instructions.... and it bricked the car!

She brought it to the dealer, who initially claimed it had to be done by the dealer, which to their dismay wasn't true. They had no idea what to do, and my coworker ended up talking to the tech, looking at the screens they figured it out -- another bug that froze the update process if the battery was below some level. They charged the battery, everything finished, and the car was back.

She ended up getting a part time gig with them helping folks with these problems, which may become a bigger thing.

Re: Chevrolet to offer unlimited data plan with cars

#62

Post by mr337 » Thu, Mar 02, 2017, 9:31 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #9

I have to wonder how useful this unlimited data plan will be in 10-15 years when you're still driving the vehicle. What are the chances Chevy is going to even have an option to upgrade the radio when the one built into the car is obsolete?

Good points, ATT is planning on sunsetting 3G next 3-5 years and move everything to 4G. So it wouldn't surprise me if 4G gets dropped within the car lifespan.

Re: Chevrolet to offer unlimited data plan with cars

#63

Post by drcross » Thu, Mar 02, 2017, 9:39 PM UTC

lotharbot wrote: post #47

nradov wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The picture in the article shows a Volt. If it's in your garage then it's plugged in.

even a Volt that's not plugged in is going to be able to run its electronics for a long, long time on a single charge. Wifi routers consume on average about 6 watts. The new Volt has an 18.4 kWh battery, which could run such a wifi router for about 4 months. Or, put another way, running a wifi router all day would use about 0.005% of the Volt's battery capacity. Obviously a lot of other support systems would be power…

I think you're wrong. Most electric cars also have a 12 volt regular battery for the in car electronics and the motor battery is isolated from the rest of the car. With that said I don't know how it's charged.

Re: Chevrolet to offer unlimited data plan with cars

#64

Post by mikeash » Thu, Mar 02, 2017, 9:42 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #46

stcredzero wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History shows that car manufacturers have not given near enough thought to the security of access to a vehicle. Here's how GM could beat Tesla, along with why it won't happen. GM could just take a look at what Tesla is doing, and do all of the same things, then do certain key things better. From a sheer resources and capability standpoint, GM could beat the pants off of Tesla. I think Tesla is counting on: 1) GM and…

Here's how Blackberry could beat Apple, along with why it won't happen. Blackberry could just take a look at what Apple is doing, and do all of the same things, then do certain key things better. From a sheer resources and capability standpoint, Blackberry could beat the pants off of Apple. I think Apple is counting on: 1) Blackberry and other big phone makers being too set in their ways and 2) GM and other big phone…

I'm not sure what point this find/replace is supposed to be making. That seems like a pretty accurate assessment of how Blackberry could have beaten Apple and why they didn't. Well, except it also needs a find/replace on "security" to something else like "UI."

Re: Chevrolet to offer unlimited data plan with cars

#65

Post by mikeash » Thu, Mar 02, 2017, 9:44 PM UTC

in_the_sticks wrote: post #60

nradov wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The picture in the article shows a Volt. If it's in your garage then it's plugged in.

That's what's in the picture but that's not the only type of vehicle Chevy makes and their electric offerings are not the only ones that are eligible. Unless there's an electric Silverado I don't know about?

If you were really motivated to make this happen, you could connect a 12V battery tender to your non-Volt to keep it alive indefinitely.

Re: Chevrolet to offer unlimited data plan with cars

#66

Post by mikeash » Thu, Mar 02, 2017, 9:46 PM UTC

drcross wrote: post #63

lotharbot wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even a Volt that's not plugged in is going to be able to run its electronics for a long, long time on a single charge. Wifi routers consume on average about 6 watts. The new Volt has an 18.4 kWh battery, which could run such a wifi router for about 4 months. Or, put another way, running a wifi router all day would use about 0.005% of the Volt's battery capacity. Obviously a lot of other support systems would be power…

I think you're wrong. Most electric cars also have a 12 volt regular battery for the in car electronics and the motor battery is isolated from the rest of the car. With that said I don't know how it's charged.

You could leave the car "on" to avoid that problem.

Teslas will top up the 12V battery from the main battery even when the car is "off," but I don't know how other cars do it.

Re: Chevrolet to offer unlimited data plan with cars

#67

Post by chiph » Thu, Mar 02, 2017, 9:48 PM UTC

mapmeld wrote: post #43

briffle wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2015 pickup has a stereo/setup that can get Satellite radio, GPS signals for the mapping program (not activated on mine), regular radio, and a 4G LTE hotspot. But what really, really annoys me, is I have to push buttons on the screen to update/fix the time.. How the hell does it not have NTP, or get a radio signal, etc?

Especially since the GPS signal has the time in it... likely it is to avoid issues with people claiming it is running fast/slow, or changing timezones.

Only the GPS time value has never had any leap seconds applied to it. So it's almost 20 seconds ahead of UTC. Which is probably "good enough" for a clock in a car.

Re: Chevrolet to offer unlimited data plan with cars

#68

Post by kbenson » Thu, Mar 02, 2017, 9:48 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #58

empath75 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's how Blackberry could beat Apple, along with why it won't happen. Blackberry could just take a look at what Apple is doing, and do all of the same things, then do certain key things better. From a sheer resources and capability standpoint, Blackberry could beat the pants off of Apple. I think Apple is counting on: 1) Blackberry and other big phone makers being too set in their ways and 2) GM and other big phone…

To be fair, Blackberry (RIM) was not bigger than Apple on the day of the iPhone announcement. Also, RIM was kind of forced to build something like the iPhone by Verizon according to Losing the Signal by Jacquie McNish https://smile.amazon.com/Losing-Signal-Extraordinary-Spectac...

To be honest, there is some truth in the ideas behind the point though. RIM always liked to control everything, and at most give Enterprises control, but not end users. Apple targeted consumers, and relied on consumers to push into enterprise for them. IIRC, it was actually some time before iOS even supported basic enterprise features (like company control and reset for company devices, etc).

Re: Chevrolet to offer unlimited data plan with cars

#69

Post by p0wn » Thu, Mar 02, 2017, 9:50 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #38

jameskilton wrote: post #8

I recently picked up a Volt which includes this OnStar 4G setup and have to say I'm extremely concerned at how quickly this "my car is on the internet" feature set is spreading. Everything is managed by OnStar through their device that's factory installed into every new Chevy vehicle. They have had security breaches and had to fix white-hat reported vulnerabilities in the past[1]. This system isn't just "4G wifi as a…

History shows that car manufacturers have not given near enough thought to the security of access to a vehicle. Here's how GM could beat Tesla, along with why it won't happen. GM could just take a look at what Tesla is doing, and do all of the same things, then do certain key things better. From a sheer resources and capability standpoint, GM could beat the pants off of Tesla. I think Tesla is counting on: 1) GM and…

Not really. GM is too large of a company to take the risks Tesla has been taking. They would likely execute much more poorly on top of this, as they'd likely outsource it to someone and there's no players in this game that are outperforming Tesla.

Re: Chevrolet to offer unlimited data plan with cars

#70

Post by 6stringmerc » Thu, Mar 02, 2017, 9:52 PM UTC

Sounds like a total gift to folks like ADAC - the German group that publicized their ability to use an available device to breach and make off with 24 cars tested out of a field of https://www.wired.com/2016/03/study-finds-24-car-models-open...

Another point of entry? Eeek. At least it keeps fiction writers like me busy, because, let's face it, creativity is what theorizes holes in systems, then followed by skill to test if they're really there.