Live data from Hacker News

Sweden brings back military conscription

bbc.co.uk

201–210 of 418 posts

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#201
post #53

How do you motivate a conscript? When I was in the British Army, which is volunteer only, commanding a basic training troop if someone was wanted to give up we could say to them 'if this isn't for you then you can go home' (of course we did coach and mentor people to help them, I mean in cases where people just give up and stop soldiering when an exercise gets tough). They usually worked extremely hard to get into th…

>> "What do you do if they sort of do what they're told, but not really putting any effort into it?" You transfer them to some variant of a penal battalion. Simon Murray has a good description of this (from the French Foreign Legion) in [0]. During his stint in the Legion, the generic punishment was having to run around carrying heavy rocks in a backpack that has wire straps, coupled with sleep deprivation. It sounds…

But in terms of motivation it should be noted that the Legion hasn't used conscripts since the early years of WW1.

In fact in later decades its usefulness, other than the aggressiveness and expendibility of its soldiers, was based on the fact that French conscripts in the home-based Armée Métropolitan legally could not be deployed overseas.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#202

I'm not sure why Sweden would be concerned. I read Russian news/propaganda occasionally. Over the last few years, Russian news/propaganda prepared Russian minds for interfering in Ukraine. And the propaganda includes arguments to justify a military buildup. And it seems to be preparing Russian minds for a possible invasion of Baltic states one day. But I don't think I've even seen Sweden mentioned in Russian news/pro…

As Russian I don't agree. I don't watch TV and read news (other than HN and a couple of other sites where I try to avoid politics as much as I can), but why the hell do we need these Baltic states? What do they have that Russia needs? Territory, natural resources? Nothing. I don't know the real motivation for annexing Crimea, but making a conclusion: first they take Crimea, then they're going to take Sweden and Balti…

Then why is Russia constantly interfering with the Baltics?

Why did Russia abduct that Estonian border guard?

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#203
post #92
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.rt.com/news/346287-sweden-russian-submarine-hunt... Russia has nothing to gain in baltic that it doesnt have with Kaliningrad. Same goes for Ukraine w/o Crimea.

Russia's whole propaganda machine is predicated on having Ukraine as integral part of Russia since they base their whole value system on promoting the view that Russia is continuation of Kievan Rus which is modern day Ukraine.

By that reasoning, America has cause to go conquer Britain.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For certain values of "conquered." The "bad guys" never seem to be completely conquered, and still enjoy significant freedom of movement and access to supply lines.

the conquered are the "bad guys"?

I don't know why you're getting downvoted, and I'm the one who put "bad guys" in quotes!

I put it in quotes not because I believe in moral relativism, but because in the conflict against the USSR, official US policy was that the mujahideen were "good guys, or at least not-as-bad-as-the-other-guys," while in our own invasion, they were bad guys, an assessment I share due to their harboring of terrorists who intentionally murdered thousands of civilians.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#205

I'm not sure why Sweden would be concerned. I read Russian news/propaganda occasionally. Over the last few years, Russian news/propaganda prepared Russian minds for interfering in Ukraine. And the propaganda includes arguments to justify a military buildup. And it seems to be preparing Russian minds for a possible invasion of Baltic states one day. But I don't think I've even seen Sweden mentioned in Russian news/pro…

As Russian I don't agree. I don't watch TV and read news (other than HN and a couple of other sites where I try to avoid politics as much as I can), but why the hell do we need these Baltic states? What do they have that Russia needs? Territory, natural resources? Nothing. I don't know the real motivation for annexing Crimea, but making a conclusion: first they take Crimea, then they're going to take Sweden and Balti…

Putin wants to revive USSR without any of it's benefits but all of it's power & resources available to him.

He might get his way-we have a "Gorbachev" in the White House or a KGB asset.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#206

How do you motivate a conscript? When I was in the British Army, which is volunteer only, commanding a basic training troop if someone was wanted to give up we could say to them 'if this isn't for you then you can go home' (of course we did coach and mentor people to help them, I mean in cases where people just give up and stop soldiering when an exercise gets tough). They usually worked extremely hard to get into th…

[deleted]

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#207

I am quite surprised by the number of people here (and even larger numbers elsewhere this is being discussed) who don't seem to have any ethical problem with conscription. Thought the idea of killer slaves was completely off limits in the West. Now all of a sudden we are debating cost effectiveness. Guess I thought wrong.

> ethical problem with conscription None whatsoever. Individual rights has real meaning only when others protect them. Individual rights are never free. You can have freedom of speech, movement, assembly and property rights only when the group you live in agrees that you have those things and protects them when you can't. When the existence of that groups existence or freedom to organize is threatened, it's time to p…

Here we're talking about one modern country invading another. It's just the land changing owners - you, as a citizen, never really owned it anyway. It belongs to the ruling class and it doesn't really matter who they are. We're all one people, we should have one language and one culture. Every modern country has the concepts you outlined above. If the new government doesn't treat you humanely, you can always take civil action to plead for your rights. What's the difference if you speak Swedish, Finnish or Russian? None. What's the difference if you're Orthodox, Catholic or Muslim? None. What's the difference in who takes your taxes? None. The system is always the same, so why should I care that some fat politician will get killed by another fat politician who wants to be the one taking the taxes? Hell, I'll pay to learn his language, too. War only makes sense when they're coming to actually kill you, not when they're coming so that they'll be the one taking the taxes, rather than the current pigs.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#208
post #137
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever military force was in Afghanistan never posed any sort of credible threat or resistance against the US military. The "resistance" that the US military faced came in terms of the US military wanting to try and recreate the society there, and having troops attacked while just driving around or facing resistance while conducting raids. If the US military wanted to, they could have easily destroyed every single…

You could basically say the same thing about any post WW2 engagement, but it means nothing. To wipe out all humans/buildings is an empty threat. Theoretically, the US could get rid of any country it didn't want by nuking them.

This is what Russians did in the Second Chechen War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1999%E2%80%9...

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A credible deterrent in 2020 is not 200k dudes with guns. It's air and naval power. Expensive and complex hi tech death machines. Of course, a 10m country will never have a really credible defense against nuclear super power Russia by itself.

Why would Russia want to invade Sweden? This is political fearmongering and bullshit.

That's what keeps puzzling me. Everyone throws the word "Russia" around without providing any kind of reason as to why it would invade any of those countries in the first place.

Do they have Russian military bases of strategic importance? No.

Do they have population that is ethnically Russian? No.

Re: Sweden brings back military conscription

#210
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all propaganda. Every war is based on this non-aggression principle and is a defensive war, offensive wars are long gone. If those in power want to fight a war on another country's soil, they simply invent a group of people they "need" to protect there, demonize the enemy and go to war there. Like Russia was "defending" russians in Georgia.

That's why I go by my own definition of defensive war, and not the government's ;) And it's one more reason not to comply with conscription and sabotaging this authoritarian practice.

You should also recognize, that as long as other states use this authoritarian practice, every state would have to use a similar practice to protect the order it imposes on people from other states.

So, yeah, opposing a state is always a good idea. States are not your friends.

Post reply on HN