Announcing Clojure/core

Nice. I have been appreciating Clojure a lot more recently because my largest customer uses it (so I am using it). There is a lot to like: practical language, good decisions on how Java integration is done, nice setup for supporting contrib library, easy to use stable 1.1 or 1.2 depending on project (since with leinigen I put clojure.jar and clojure-contrib.jar in each project's lib directory), nice Emacs support with swank-clojure, etc.

I dont hire other programmers but if I did I would appreciate have so much Clojure specific talent in one organization. I hope that Clojure/core prospers - they deserve it.

Re: Announcing Clojure/core

#5

Post by rfreytag » Tue, May 25, 2010, 3:05 PM UTC

Something about a commercial website with its sense of self-interest versus welcoming-user-focus causes me a gut bad reaction.

Postgres is an good example of doing this right IMHO: http://www.postgres.com the commercial aspects are underplayed and yet they have a good business. With Postgres I feel I can contribute even if I am not part of the "core." I think Clojure and the businesses around it benefit from keeping the same open, welcoming feeling.

I have been very interested in Clojure and haven't seen it put a foot wrong so far. This is an unexpected "off" note.

EDIT: Languages and tools do prosper and my point here is to highlight how they do so by building a community and what Clojure's "core" risk through making this distinction.

EDIT: I know about http://clojure.org - my point is that http://postgres.com (note the .com) downplays the us-vs-them-ness that comes with a commercial tombstone site. Also the announced redirect indicates to me the change in tone is intentional - I hope they readjust. They can keep the community-sense and still have a good business.

Re: Announcing Clojure/core

#6

Post by swannodette » Tue, May 25, 2010, 3:12 PM UTC

rfreytag wrote: post #5

Something about a commercial website with its sense of self-interest versus welcoming-user-focus causes me a gut bad reaction. Postgres is an good example of doing this right IMHO: http://www.postgres.com the commercial aspects are underplayed and yet they have a good business. With Postgres I feel I can contribute even if I am not part of the "core." I think Clojure and the businesses around it benefit from keeping…

http://clojure.org

Re: Announcing Clojure/core

#7

Post by silkodyssey » Tue, May 25, 2010, 3:12 PM UTC

zachbeane wrote: post #3

I wonder if Arc is the tortoise to Clojure's hare.

Would you care to elaborate? Your assertion implies that arc is going to surpass clojure in popularity. Why do you think so? Personally I think that's unlikely to happen given the traction that clojure has been getting already. Clojure has been designed for practical use and is already being used in real world projects whereas I get the impression that arc is sort of a research project where Paul is just experimenting with some ideas and is not constrained by the desire to do practical work.

Re: Announcing Clojure/core

#8

Post by swannodette » Tue, May 25, 2010, 3:16 PM UTC

zachbeane wrote: post #3

I wonder if Arc is the tortoise to Clojure's hare.

Besides being a Lisp, Arc does not exist anywhere near the the same territory as Clojure.

Lisp introduced us to: code == data

Clojure introduces us to: code == concurrent high-performance immutable data

Re: Announcing Clojure/core

#9

Post by zachbeane » Tue, May 25, 2010, 3:20 PM UTC

silkodyssey wrote: post #7

zachbeane wrote: post #3

I wonder if Arc is the tortoise to Clojure's hare.

Would you care to elaborate? Your assertion implies that arc is going to surpass clojure in popularity. Why do you think so? Personally I think that's unlikely to happen given the traction that clojure has been getting already. Clojure has been designed for practical use and is already being used in real world projects whereas I get the impression that arc is sort of a research project where Paul is just experimentin…

I didn't make any assertions. Clojure is wildly successful and follows a pattern of development that seems fruitful to emulate. But in the story, the tortoise does win.

Re: Announcing Clojure/core

#10

Post by zachbeane » Tue, May 25, 2010, 3:23 PM UTC

swannodette wrote: post #8

zachbeane wrote: post #3

I wonder if Arc is the tortoise to Clojure's hare.

Besides being a Lisp, Arc does not exist anywhere near the the same territory as Clojure. Lisp introduced us to: code == data Clojure introduces us to: code == concurrent high-performance immutable data

In a hundred years, is that something that will matter?